Petition: Stamp duty holiday to be triggered upon exchange of contracts

davilown

Coituner_82 said:

NameUnavailable said:

I was waiting to see something like this - kicking the SDLT holiday down the road it was inevitable there'd be another uproar from those who are in the process of buying and might lose out. 

Personally, the sooner it ends the better, it's just causing mayhem and taxpayers are giving money away to people who really don't need it as much as others who have been affected by Covid impact. 

From what I can see this petition wouldn't kick it down the road / extend it, it would just enable more people to be included within the government set time line? It's a way of managing the mayhem that's been caused. Good policy, but needs managing correctly. Now's the time to manage it correctly. It needs gently caressing. 
From your response, can I safely assume that you aren't buying a new build house at the moment?

‘Mayhem’ has only been caused by the individuals buying houses. Just because there’s a special offer on, doesn’t mean everyone is going to get it.

It’s been quite evident that unless you had an offer excepted before early March, it was highly unlikely a purchase would be eligible for the holiday.

As for New builds and completion dates, that’s what the purchaser should have negotiated with the builder. Simple

Sunsaru

Lavendyr said:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6267357/buyers-threatening-to-pull-out/
This thread is an example of developers forcing exchange months before the property is built. This can make a significant difference. As some point out on that thread, this is not "off plan". This is just what the market looks like right now and is what developers want. 
Edit to add: It's also an example of why sale/purchases might fall through, if the purchaser is pushing to complete before the end of June. If they were able to exchange with a long-stop completion, that might solve a lot of problems.

Can't really quote that thread when no one actually knows what the buyers are up to. 
#justsayin

lookstraightahead

I'm not sure what the issue is here. Everyone in life has times when a situation is advantageous and others not. I missed out in first time buyer status, can I backtrack? Or how about the holiday deal where kids go free when yours are grown up before the deals started? Or 2 for 1 at Wetheys?

Some people just want it all. 

AdrianC

Lavendyr said:

AdrianC said:

Coituner_82 said:
You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds

No, you don't.

You can exchange and complete simultaneously with new-builds. So long as they've actually been built.

You have to exchange in advance of completion with off-plan properties, simply because they haven't actually been built at the time of exchange.

And therein the point. If you look at the news currently the housing market is incredibly low in stock. People will be buying off-plan. They have no alternative but to exchange in advance. Even with properties that have been built, exchange is likely to be required by the developer in advance of completion. I've never known a developer to sell a new build - built or not - without advance exchange. 

So what happens about long-stop dates?

I still don't understand why the idea of gently tapering support for the housing market upsets others so much

You aren't suggesting a taper, gentle or steep.
A taper would involve the SDLT being (say) 25% for sales in the fortnight after the deadline, 50% in the next fortnight after, 75% in the fortnight after that, then 100%. The phase-in of SDLT would taper over 6wks.

You are merely suggesting changing one hard cut-off date for another. Completion for exchange.
<Deadline> on Monday, full benefit.
<Deadline> on Tuesday, zero benefit.

davilown

lookstraightahead said:

I'm not sure what the issue is here. Everyone in life has times when a situation is advantageous and others not. I missed out in first time buyer status, can I backtrack? Or how about the holiday deal where kids go free when yours are grown up before the deals started? Or 2 for 1 at Wetheys?

Some people just want it all. 

That’s the problem - they think if they moan they’ll get, rather than ‘s£/t happens’ and just get in with life like everyone else has done.

grumiofoundation

Lavendyr said:

grumiofoundation said:

Coituner_82 said:

[Deleted User] said:

A bigger risk in the last 12 months has been for those who do not exchange and complete on the same day. We chose to do so because if the wife was furloughed or made redundant after exchange (travel sector) you'd be back in the hands of the lender.

Exchange and complete on the same day, solves your problem and mine. 

The petition from what I can see is aimed at new builds. You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds, some times even longer with multiple mortgage extensions. So the problem is not solved? Hence the petition i'm guessing.

So I assume you believe anyone who exchanged on a new build 9-12 months prior to the start of the SDLT holiday, but then completed during the SDLT holiday should have had to pay stamp duty?

Where is the logic for this? It makes absolutely no sense. The whole point is to ensure confidence in the housing market during an uncertain time. If people had exchanged prior to the stamp duty holiday and then benefited from it when completing, I'm happy for them. But right now we are in a situation where the government wants to bolster the housing market. If they want people to buy into new builds, as mentioned above, in particular those that are off-plan, then what's wrong with the idea of offering some extra support by removing an additional upfront cost?
Honestly it just seems like people are bitter about not having had the tax break themselves. Let's not forget that it buoys up house prices by an equivalent amount. It's just an easier pill to swallow over 25 years than upfront.

Well you are the one who wants SDLT to apply at the point of exchange so seemed pretty logical to me that you would then feel that someone who exchanged in advance of the SDLT holiday should pay SDLT.  

For the record I received a negligible £2500 tax break, and would much rather have paid said tax and the ill-thought out SDLT (and LTT, LBTT) holiday never having been started in the first place, nor extended. 

Unsurprisingly has soon as the extension was announced you get a rush of people thinking they can beat that deadline, who will then moan when they will lose their property because they have to pay the tax anyone with half a brain would have budgeted for. 

You still seem to be struggling with the concept that your ‘SDLT at exchange’ proposal is still a cliff edge cut off, you have just moved the cliff edge for some people. 

Let’s assume for a second your proposal was brought in.
Will you then be campaigning for government Bail outs for anyone who had to pull out after exchanging ‘early’ (to save SDLT) and then didn’t complete? 

[Deleted User]

Coituner_82 said:

[Deleted User] said:

A bigger risk in the last 12 months has been for those who do not exchange and complete on the same day. We chose to do so because if the wife was furloughed or made redundant after exchange (travel sector) you'd be back in the hands of the lender.

Exchange and complete on the same day, solves your problem and mine. 

The petition from what I can see is aimed at new builds. You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds, some times even longer with multiple mortgage extensions. So the problem is not solved? Hence the petition i'm guessing.

You state that you have to exchange 9 to 12 months before on new builds. Hence you are wrong.

Lavendyr

I really think I've said all I can on this topic. There's a lot of "shoud have" and "anyone with half a brain". That's lovely in theory but things don't always go to plan.
I fail to see how allowing a temporary window for SDLT to be fixed on exchange is not tapering. It allows people to move forward with their transactions more confidently. I acknowledge the existing tapering in terms of amount to be paid, and support that. 
@davilown, I hope you find something that makes you happy. It's a tough market at the moment. We are incredibly grateful that we were able to find something that suited us perfectly so quickly, but even with no chain below or above it took us 4 months to complete - mainly because solicitors are so busy that they just don't have the resource to meet demand. And yes, bad stuff does happen (not going to try and dodge the forum filters as you did). Thank you for your condescending response.
@grumiofoundation I am not "struggling" with anything. Thank you for your concern. The desire to support the housing market is forward-looking. It makes no sense to be punitive in a time when the govt is doing all it can to bolster it. Things aren't always symmetrical.
With all respect I shall not be looking at this thread any further. I think I've said all I can on the topic. I respect that others have different views. I also reiterate that the current extension does not affect me personally, but that I am familiar with the current state of the market and it is very, very tough right now to buy in a set timeframe because the services you need are so incredibly stretched. 
Wishing you all well.

SpiderLegs

You said you were finished two pages ago. You’re not understanding any of the points raised, the main one being that what you propose simply isn’t tapering, so it’s probably best you actually call it a day this time.

Thankfully there are less than 9,000 people who are either also unable to understand or (more likely) simply feeling left out of a freebie. I don’t think any of us need to worry that this garbage idea will be going anywhere.

Thrugelmir

Lavendyr said:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6267357/buyers-threatening-to-pull-out/
This thread is an example of developers forcing exchange months before the property is built. This can make a significant difference.

Has been standard practice for decades. From scheduling the delivery of materials, to trades people etc etc. The sales and construction process is managed and timetabled. Tying up large sums of cash and wasting valuable resources isn't the way to operate a business. Exchange is a legally binding commitment.  Anyone can pay a reservation deposit only to then change their minds 6 months later. Simply walking away leaving the developer to pick up the pieces.