Petition: Stamp duty holiday to be triggered upon exchange of contracts

user1977

Coituner_82 said:

Lavendyr said:

Not quite accurate. Most will build the stamp duty expense into their purchase price, as it forms a substantial cost. 

Were you in a position of buying a house within the stamp duty holiday? I was. Had we been unable to complete within that window we would have dropped our offer accordingly. It’s not a bonus and there is no saving; it’s a way of propping up house prices and keeping the market moving. Our vendors recognised this and acted accordingly by moving into rented accommodation to ensure the sale went through (this was before the extension). 

To be clear, I am absolutely not suggesting keeping on extending it. Just seems fair to say that if you have contracted to pay £X for a house before the holiday deadline - i.e. if you have exchanged - then the government will contract with you that you will benefit from the stamp duty holiday. Simple as that.I don’t see why that is so upsetting.

Completely agree with Lavendyr. People are not reading the petition properly. I know several people who have bought new builds with a period between exchange and completion set at approx 9 months, the builders don't have to set a specific date.

If they've exchanged for an off-plan purchase then they already knew there were no guarantees about when completion will take place, so by definition they don't need the SDLT holiday, do they? (or if they did, they could have specified a relevant longstop date) The whole point of it was to stimulate transactions which wouldn't otherwise have happened.

SpiderLegs

Coituner_82 said:

NameUnavailable said:

I was waiting to see something like this - kicking the SDLT holiday down the road it was inevitable there'd be another uproar from those who are in the process of buying and might lose out. 

Personally, the sooner it ends the better, it's just causing mayhem and taxpayers are giving money away to people who really don't need it as much as others who have been affected by Covid impact. 

From what I can see this petition wouldn't kick it down the road / extend it, it would just enable more people to be included within the government set time line? It's a way of managing the mayhem that's been caused. Good policy, but needs managing correctly. Now's the time to manage it correctly. It needs gently caressing. 
From your response, can I safely assume that you aren't buying a new build house at the moment?

Can we assume that you are buying a new build house at the moment?

if so, when did you exchange and what is the estimated completion date?

Coituner_82

[Deleted User] said:

A bigger risk in the last 12 months has been for those who do not exchange and complete on the same day. We chose to do so because if the wife was furloughed or made redundant after exchange (travel sector) you'd be back in the hands of the lender.

Exchange and complete on the same day, solves your problem and mine. 

The petition from what I can see is aimed at new builds. You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds, some times even longer with multiple mortgage extensions. So the problem is not solved? Hence the petition i'm guessing.

grumiofoundation

Coituner_82 said:

[Deleted User] said:

A bigger risk in the last 12 months has been for those who do not exchange and complete on the same day. We chose to do so because if the wife was furloughed or made redundant after exchange (travel sector) you'd be back in the hands of the lender.

Exchange and complete on the same day, solves your problem and mine. 

The petition from what I can see is aimed at new builds. You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds, some times even longer with multiple mortgage extensions. So the problem is not solved? Hence the petition i'm guessing.

So I assume you believe anyone who exchanged on a new build 9-12 months prior to the start of the SDLT holiday, but then completed during the SDLT holiday should have had to pay stamp duty?

Coituner_82

Lavendyr said:

@Spiderlegs here are some examples of unpleasant, unproductive and unhelpful commentary.

"Get a grip." - Nile E Coyote.
"Well I don’t believe any of that because I have just bought a nice green hat and only people who have got green hats know about stamp duty and stuff." - yes this was you, and it was entirely unproductive and unnecessary. 

As I said, I appreciate the other views that were constructive and sensible, including those that you, spiderlegs, posted before this. 

Edit to add: My concern is purely that the market is about to topple off a cliff with the end of the SDLT threshold, even with the tapered fall that is legislated. Does it affect me personally? No. Does it affect thousands of transactions in progress which are struggling because of the demand on mortgage lenders, estate agents and conveyancers? Absolutely. 

Again, completely agree with you Lavendyr. I think this petition is great. From their response, you can safely assume that they aren't buying a new build house at the moment, or any house for that matter. Their responses are narrow minded and completely miss the point. 

AdrianC

Coituner_82 said:
You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds

No, you don't.

You can exchange and complete simultaneously with new-builds. So long as they've actually been built.

You have to exchange in advance of completion with off-plan properties, simply because they haven't actually been built at the time of exchange.

Lavendyr

AdrianC said:

Coituner_82 said:
You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds

No, you don't.

You can exchange and complete simultaneously with new-builds. So long as they've actually been built.

You have to exchange in advance of completion with off-plan properties, simply because they haven't actually been built at the time of exchange.

And therein the point. If you look at the news currently the housing market is incredibly low in stock. People will be buying off-plan. They have no alternative but to exchange in advance. Even with properties that have been built, exchange is likely to be required by the developer in advance of completion. I've never known a developer to sell a new build - built or not - without advance exchange. 
I still don't understand why the idea of gently tapering support for the housing market upsets others so much, particularly those who have not been caught up in the current market. As I've said many times, I would not benefit from a tapering - we have completed - but I have seen firsthand how ridiculous the market is right now and how busy estate agents, conveyancers, surveyors etc are. I've bought houses before and it has never been like this. 
Appreciate your thoughts, @Coit@Coituner_82.

Lavendyr

grumiofoundation said:

Coituner_82 said:

[Deleted User] said:

A bigger risk in the last 12 months has been for those who do not exchange and complete on the same day. We chose to do so because if the wife was furloughed or made redundant after exchange (travel sector) you'd be back in the hands of the lender.

Exchange and complete on the same day, solves your problem and mine. 

The petition from what I can see is aimed at new builds. You have to exchange approx 9-12 months before completion with new builds, some times even longer with multiple mortgage extensions. So the problem is not solved? Hence the petition i'm guessing.

So I assume you believe anyone who exchanged on a new build 9-12 months prior to the start of the SDLT holiday, but then completed during the SDLT holiday should have had to pay stamp duty?

Where is the logic for this? It makes absolutely no sense. The whole point is to ensure confidence in the housing market during an uncertain time. If people had exchanged prior to the stamp duty holiday and then benefited from it when completing, I'm happy for them. But right now we are in a situation where the government wants to bolster the housing market. If they want people to buy into new builds, as mentioned above, in particular those that are off-plan, then what's wrong with the idea of offering some extra support by removing an additional upfront cost?
Honestly it just seems like people are bitter about not having had the tax break themselves. Let's not forget that it buoys up house prices by an equivalent amount. It's just an easier pill to swallow over 25 years than upfront.

Lavendyr

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6267357/buyers-threatening-to-pull-out/
This thread is an example of developers forcing exchange months before the property is built. This can make a significant difference. As some point out on that thread, this is not "off plan". This is just what the market looks like right now and is what developers want. 
Edit to add: It's also an example of why sale/purchases might fall through, if the purchaser is pushing to complete before the end of June. If they were able to exchange with a long-stop completion, that might solve a lot of problems.

davilown

Coituner_82 said:

davilown said:

Omg get a grip. You’ve had plenty of time to take advantage of a really good tax break. 

If you’re not happy with the timings, don’t buy or pay your solicitor extra to complete on time.
why on earth do people think a petition is going to change the fact that they’ve taken too long to choose a house or that their seller has realised they’ve offered too much so need to reduce and delay the sale.

This is a very narrow minded response from someone who clearer has not read all of the petition. 

No it’s not a narrow minded view whatsoever.

You are choosing to buy a new build, if you’ve exchanged but not completed by the time SDTL holiday ends, that’s your issue that you should have thought about.

When you made your over the top offer to the big corporate building company, you should have negotiated a reduction in price you were paying if completion was after the holiday. 

And for the record, we’ve been looking to buy for 9 months, and have had to adjust our budget accordingly - why on earth would I expect the tax payer to further fund my purchase?