Less than the threshold so no 4th grant

[Deleted User]

I submitted my tax return for 19/20. My earnings were less than a thousand so was less than the threshold for the tax return. The self assessment grant had helped me because covid impacted me. I got an email to say I wouldn’t qualify for the 4th grant. Then contacted HMRC last week who said to contact claims today. I contacted them and they said I wouldn’t qualify? I don’t understand? Surely the whole point is to help people like me who have been completely impacted by Covid? 
Thanks in advance.

zzyzx1221

The problem is that if you say you earned less than £1000, you don't get asked to fill out a tax return.  If you don't fill out a tax return, you don't qualify for SEISS.

I do believe you can fill out a tax return regardless and you should have done this (obviously in hindsight) but I think you're going to struggle to get anything out of them.

Jeremy535897

zzyzx1221 said:

The problem is that if you say you earned less than £1000, you don't get asked to fill out a tax return.  If you don't fill out a tax return, you don't qualify for SEISS.

I do believe you can fill out a tax return regardless and you should have done this (obviously in hindsight) but I think you're going to struggle to get anything out of them.

OP said they submitted a tax return for 2019/20. What will have happened is that OP won't have declared self employment income. That is correct if sales were £1,000 or less. See for example:
https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/forums/customerforums/sa/d2cc7f7d-fdda-ea11-bf21-00155d9ca600

The Treasury Direction says:
"9.1 For the purposes of SEISS 4, paragraph 10 of SEISS does not apply and amounts of trading profits and relevant income are determined by reference to a person’s tax returns for any relevant tax years as at 2 March 2021." It does not say that a person will not be treated as trading if they did not need to include profits because of the £1,000 de minimis. But if you put nothing in for 2019/20, the computer program rejects your claim. You need to explain all this in writing by way of appeal. See https://www.icaew.com/coronavirus/self-employment-income-support-scheme

"A taxpayer or their agent can ask for a review of SEISS eligibility status or the amount of the grant by contacting HMRC on 0800 024 1222. (The online forms are no longer in use).

The following information will need to be provided:

• the grant claim reference;
• the taxpayer’s national insurance number;
• the taxpayer’s UTR; and
• details about why they think the decision on eligibility or the amount of the grant is wrong.

HMRC’s guidance should be checked before requesting a review.

If the taxpayer is not satisfied with the outcome of a review they, or their agent, should follow HMRC’s complaints process. There is no right to make a formal appeal – decisions on the award of a grant are not decisions on a tax matter that can be appealed to the tax tribunals."

HMRC have made an utter mess of this. They should have made it clear that if you wanted to claim SEISS, you had to complete SA103 even if turnover was £1,000 or less. Whether anything can be done is a matter for the appeal.

zzyzx1221

They may have started filling it out, but if you tick the box saying you earned less than £1000, it ends there as far as I'm aware.


Call it "not declaring any income" if you want. It amounts to the same thing.

poppy12345

In all fairness i don't see where anyone has patronised you.

OP have you looked at entitlement to Universal Credit? Use a benefits calculator to check entitlement. If you have savings/capital of more than £16,000 you're excluded from claiming. If you live with a partner you claim as a couple. A claim for UC will end any tax credits you may already be claiming.

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/benefits-calculator/Intro/Home?cid=2cd8055c-ccee-4a7a-b56f-c1b1ce82cd7f

Jeremy535897

Deleted User said:

@Jeremy535897 Thank you for your kind reply. I simply followed the tax return rules having earned £700 last year. I could not submit that as income as it was less than a thousand pounds. It’s so unfair to have complied with the rules, submitted my return on the 22nd of Jan and to get penalised. 

Also with regards to the other poster there is no need to patronise - I am already at my wits end. Please be mindful of that and next time it is ok to not reply. 

Let us know if you decide to take the matter further and appeal.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

I simply followed the tax return rules having earned £700 last year. I could not submit that as income as it was less than a thousand pounds

You could possibly have done if you claimed the trading allowance, you could have simply not claimed it.

Jeremy535897

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I simply followed the tax return rules having earned £700 last year. I could not submit that as income as it was less than a thousand pounds

You could possibly have done if you claimed the trading allowance, you could have simply not claimed it.

The issue is not the trading allowance. Had OP completed a form SA103 for 2019/20 showing turnover £700, trading allowance £700, SEISS 4 would not have been blocked (although a zero profit in 2019/20 would have diluted the average profits). But the notes to SA103S (2020) say:

"Total receipts from self-employment and miscellaneous income (see box 17 ‘Other taxable income’ on page TRG 8 of the tax return notes) of up to £1,000 are exempt from tax and do not need to be reported on a tax return."

They do however say:

"If after reading TRG 2 you choose to complete the ‘Self-employment (short)’ pages because:
• you expect your turnover to exceed £1,000 in the next tax year, only complete boxes 1 to 8 "

TRG 2 basically contains the same wording.

JJC1956

Hi, sorry but i am a bit confused.
We’re you eligible for the first 3 grants, Or is this your first application?
Were you trading 2016 - 2020 or part thereof?