Council Tax Reduction. A Strange One! Advice Required.

Bryn99

Hi all.

If you don't mind, I'll give a quick overview of the last few years regarding my Council Tax Reduction.

2018-2019: Worked second half of year, received various amounts of reduction as income changed.
2019-2020: Worked all of this period, wages up and down depending on hours worked, various reduction because of fluctuating wage.
2020-2021: Worked first couple of months of this period, lost job, onto UC, full reduction because unemployed/lockdown.
2021-2022: We're currently in the first month of this period, and although unemployed, I'm looking to start my own business in the coming months, through the help of the New Enterprise Allowance.

I should point out that I've always kept the Council in the loop with any changes to my circumstances, and always gone in to see them whenever they've got something wrong (several times in the last 4 years).

Now, with that out of the way, let's get to the point.
This morning I received a letter from the Council about my council tax reduction.
Now, a year ago, the letter I received stated that I had full reduction because of my circumstances, and there were no outstanding amounts owing (I pay when I'm asked to, if I agree that I should), so my balance was zero.

This morning's letter not only stated that for the period 2021-2022 (now) I had no council tax reduction (remember, I'm currently unemployed, and won't be regarded as self-employed for at least a couple of months yet, and the NEA scheme does not affect Housing costs or council tax), but the letter also stated that for the period 2020-2021 (the last 12 months, lockdown and unemployed) I am not entitled to council tax reduction.
Now, I've already been given that council tax reduction, because that was last year.

On top of that, the letter also stated that for the period 2019-2020 (I was working part-time/full-time, and paying what they said I needed to with their monthly letters as my income fluctuated)  I had no council tax reduction, even though that's in the past, and I did get reductions of various amounts throughout the year, not to mention the fact that it's in the past.
They also said that I owe them £1 from the 2018-2019 for the same strange reasons of not being entitled to reduction, even though the letter was this morning, and they're talking about a few years ago, a time in which I did get some reductions and paid what I had to.

The whole thing doesn't make any sense to me.
Are they allowed to just make it up as they go along?

So, I have a bill of more than £1800 for something that's in the past, that I did get varying amounts of reduction for, dependent on what I earned each month, that I paid in full everything that I was required to after reductions.
I have Emailed them asking for clarification, but I was wondering if anyone has heard of anything like this before.
It's like SKY putting their price up and then sending you the bill for 10 years of the difference.

Their reasoning is that it's due to a change in my Universal Credit Award, resulting in a change to my entitlement to Council Tax Reduction.
The only changes that I've notified Universal Credit of are the increase in Rent that came into effect on 5th April, and my dealings with the NEA in recent weeks (again, until I start trading as self-employed, which is still months away, I'm claiming full UC and classed as unemployed, AND the NEA scheme does not affect Housing or Council Tax Reduction).

I'm at a loss as to what is going on.
Dealing with the Council Tax people is always a pain.
If you deal with most companies about bills, they're usually professional and very helpful, but Council Tax offices seem to not give a toss.
They really don't care, and seem a law unto themselves.
They've made some real bad errors with my account over the years, and each time had to admit they were wrong, but didn't really care that it had happened.
Their letters/bills are unnecessarily wordy and overcomplicated, without actually giving you the reasons for the decision, and seem best at just demanding money, and that's it.

I've already notified my UC work coach that if this bill is something that they say has to be paid, I will not be able to go ahead with the NEA until it's sorted.

Thanks for any assistance with this.

Bryn.

[Deleted User]

Only thing you can do is phone them in the morning.

airliner

My advice would be not to get bogged down in past 'errors'. Whoever you speak to at the council will not care. 

Ask what has prompted them to recalculate your previous awards.

It could be some information they have erroneously received from UC for example, who knows. 

You can ask for a breakdown of all the calculations that they have done for previous years, if necessary. 

Bryn99

Thanks guys.

Just phoned them, and they said it was not down to them, but down to the Council Tax Reduction department.
She did confirm that the bill showed up on their system as me owing them all this money from the previous 3 years and the upcoming year.

Phoned the Council Tax Reduction team, and she had a good look through and said that a few days ago they were sent information from UC that said in January 2019 I earned over £1000 (which I did, and for that month probably got no CTR), but their automated system had assumed that I had earnt that much every month since, and so automatically cancelled my CTR, and took away all CTR that I was given since Jan 2019, causing a huge overpayment bill.
The reason they were sent information was because it was triggered by a change in my UC account, and the only 2 things that changed were the rent increase, which I notified them about at the start of April, and the recent NEA involvement.

The woman from the CTR team was convinced that the error/problem was caused by the information (or lack of) sent by UC into their automated system, which didn't mention any other wage other than the Jan 2019 one, and no mention of me being unemployed since just before lockdown!
Crazy.

I have all the proof I need in my UC journal (and the HMRC) as to what I earnt every month since then, and what I was awarded by UC each month.
As requested by her, I am currently printing off every UC payment since Jan 2019 from my journal, and she is sending me a form to apply for CTR, backdated to Jan 2019 to erase the bill.
She also asked me to inform my work coach about it, so that maybe they can try and sort it their end too, which I have just done.

What a mess.
These automated systems do not work with things like Council Tax.
All of the past problems I mentioned previously have been because of the automated system, and each time it took manpower from their staff to sort it out.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted, just for future reference for anyone else who has this happen to them.

Thanks again for the replies.

calcotti

Bryn99 said: What a mess.

These automated systems do not work with things like Council Tax.
All of the past problems I mentioned previously have been because of the automated system, and each time it took manpower from their staff to sort it out.

Indeed. However as CTR team should know that UC is calculated every month I think it's irresponsible of them to make the assumption that they can project forward from one month of information.

CIS

The problem is that CTR requires the income to be used to calculate forward for council tax purposes so that the estimated CTR for the whole of the council tax period is calculated. It's the same issue with a council tax discount or exemption where you can get a bill in April that says nil for the year and 2 weeks later get a bill to pay as the requisite assumptions have changed.

tomtom256

Did this create a nil award, as that can stop the local authority from receiveing the the RTI and UC feeds?

Bryn99

calcotti said:
I think it's irresponsible of them to make the assumption that they can project forward from one month of information.

CIS said:

 It's the same issue with a council tax discount or exemption where you can get a bill in April that says nil for the year and 2 weeks later get a bill to pay as the requisite assumptions have changed.

Exactly to both of you.
When I was working, and my wages were fluctuating, one month I'd get a bill showing a payment schedule of amounts to be paid and when they should be paid which went all the way to the following April, and the following month I'd get a statement saying I didn't owe a thing.
Then, the following month, because of more money earnt, I'd have another scheduled payment bill.
And it gets worse.
If you earn enough that you don't get ANY reduction, you're automatically taken off the system, and have to reapply for it again.
I was told this a couple of years ago when I had a face-to-face meeting with them about another one of their errors.

There has to be a better way.
I don't think anyone minds paying what they have to pay if they're earning enough, but this system is so flawed.

calcotti

CIS said:

The problem is that CTR requires the income to be used to calculate forward for council tax purposes so that the estimated CTR for the whole of the council tax period is calculated. It's the same issue with a council tax discount or exemption where you can get a bill in April that says nil for the year and 2 weeks later get a bill to pay as the requisite assumptions have changed.

I can understand that for a current year award but to il a past year on the basis of an adjustment to one month of information seems perverse. A more appropriate response would be to make an enquiry about the circumstances.

Bryn99

tomtom256 said:

Did this create a nil award, as that can stop the local authority from receiveing the the RTI and UC feeds?

The update to my UC (Rent increase and NEA involvement) shouldn't have created a nil award, and wouldn't mean them taking awards from previous years.
Somehow, and again, this is due to them seemingly wanting everything automated, that one piece of information about January 2019 seems to have been applied to all months since, despite them having all the information from the last few years regarding my wages and UC awards.

My work coach just got back to me, and wasn't happy that the Tax office were blaming the UC office, and I don't blame her.
She said they see a lot of that blaming from the Tax office, when the Tax office obviously know they are the ones that have made the mistake.

She also said that the ONLY proof I need are the payments printouts from UC, which I also agree with.
I mean, the HMRC send my monthly earning to UC, and then UC work out how much UC I'm given for that month, and all available to print out, so it's all legit.

I'm more confident now that it will be sorted out, and that I'm not going to be left with a bill I shouldn't have.

seatbeltnoob

council tax reduction is so complicated. they seem to revise the amounts every month. the statements are the most confusing document I've ever seen. I cannot make any sense of it.