Party wall agreement - excavation for foundations

Rosa_Damascena

EnterUserName said:

No, we're about 6 days into the 14 days... Very odd.

Perhaps I misunderstood and works are starting but not the notifiable works. However whilst I am not a builder, I assume you normally start building at the foundations 

They can start where they like, but the part that relates to the party wall must be from the date on the notice.

Newuser1987

EnterUserName said:

No, we're about 6 days into the 14 days... Very odd.

Perhaps I misunderstood and works are starting but not the notifiable works. However whilst I am not a builder, I assume you normally start building at the foundations 

Yes thats correct. The notice only relates to the notifiable works. So they can start demolition and also foundations which are 3m away from your foundations.

EnterUserName

I'll have to go and talk to the builders when they arrive. Next door don't seem to know what their plan is.

They've already done the preparation work, the whole extension footprint falls within 3m of some neighbour (not necessarily me). 

It's an odd situation, that I have not found an answer to on google. However I assume I have some level of protection from the act now that we have been served notice?

Rosa_Damascena

One thing I'm not entirely clear about - who bears the cost of repairs should accidental damage be incurred and the PWA need to be enacted. I had assumed it was down to the builder's indemnity, but now I'm having doubts...

Someone set me straight here please?

EnterUserName

From what I read,it sits with the building owner who has the work done. It would be for them to seek it from the builders. However, apparently if it is just bad luck, and not negligence, the builder's insurance might not cover it...

mug2007

I would be tempted to agree to the notice on condition that they do the schedule of condition by a surveyor before the excavations. In any case it may be wise to make sure you photograph your house internally/externally including roofs as a fall back plan. 

It sounds like it's close to your property rather than a party wall so it's likely that if you dissent and an award was drawn up it wouldn't contain anything more than what is already in the act (making good any damage, not causing unnecessary inconvenience) and your neighbours project could be delayed, the relationship may deteriorate and it will cost them a few hundred pounds.  If you dissent insisting on another surveyor then you will likely double the neighbours bills, potentially delay the project further and probably find it'll make little difference to the award.

Our builders started our project before the party wall agreement came through (both neighbours dissented), we had about 2 weeks demolition work we could do before they needed to do the excavations. No one was actually interested about what was in the award as it was just excavations close to the detached neighbours using standard build methods, so the award was just a more detailed version of what was already covered by the act.  The award came in before the builders ran out of work so we were ok and didn't need to consider starting before the agreement came through.

I guess their builders could just get on with it without the agreement, the majority of building owners don't even serve the party wall notice, but it's not the best way to go about things. 

I would just be wary, as if you ring any party wall surveyors for advice, they will have a well rehearsed sales pitch to convince you to dissent and hire them as they will want your neighbours cash.  This formal disagreement may not be in anyone's best interests and the government booklet advises trying to reach an agreement with the neighbours.

EnterUserName

Detailed post, thanks.

Yes there is no disagreement, we were of the mind to consent with a schedule of condition, with their surveyor. But that all goes out the window if they dig before we have a chance to reply. I'm not sure where that leaves us. I forgot to photograph the roof, so thanks for that, I will make sure I do that too.

This is a new rear extension in the back garden, not replacing anything. So I don't really see what else there is to do before the foundations.

I'm calling their surveyor tomorrow, perhaps he can talk some sense into them.

mug2007

The gov booklet clearly states once they have sent the notice they should wait for agreement before the party work can start. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523010/Party_Wall_etc__Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf  - Appendix 2

I guess the surveyor will give the neighbours a reminder if you ring them up.  I do wonder what the consequences would be if they ploughed ahead.

Since they have already sent the notice then they have empowered you dissent if you wish appointing a surveyor at their cost (must be reasonable).

The interesting thing is a builder can probably excavate and lay the foundations rather quickly day/two before the surveyor has even got to your case and then the award is hardly worth writing.  

One thing I have just spotted in that booklet that I wish both my neighbours had read before dissenting with a different surveyor

36 What if I cannot reach agreement with my neighbour? See paragraphs 12 - 19. Where the proposed works are minor and/or not intrusive on your building or land, you may have only minor objections that you cannot agree or perhaps simply want some assurance that the correct procedures are followed. In these circumstances, and particularly in residential circumstances where surveyor’s fees would significantly increase the project costs, the appointment of an agreed surveyor to resolve the dispute is preferable, especially if the proposed surveyor is not involved in your neighbour's project

EnterUserName

Yeah that's interesting, and actually the case here. I have no intention to either dissent or find another surveyor. I am however a bit confused with the situation now (like you say the foundations can probably be dug and filled before my "consent with condition report" letter even reaches their surveyor.

Time will tell, I will update the thread with what happens!

Miss.Twizz

EnterUserName, how did this pan out in the end?