Washing machine waste pipe overflowing

Jeepers_Creepers

Just compared Rental's pic with my own setup - RF pretty certainly has 35mm (11/4") pipe, which is simply not large enough, certainly not for a run that long.

Rental, can you come back after trying pushing the hose down further, and see if that does enough to force the water down and along that pipe? If that doesn't work, then short of replacing that white pipe - ideally all of it... - the Screwfix adaptor with a pipe extension above might sort it. That isn't the 'correct' solution, but it could work.

How much water splashes out - a small or a significant amount?

rentalforever

Jeepers_Creepers said:

rentalforever said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

It's not designed to be sealed, as this would risk the water content of the W/M to be syphoned out when you don't want it to be.

Could you post a wider shot to show the height of the vertical white pipe in relation to the W/M itself? It may be that it needs raising a little - that could be all that's required.

Also could you describe/photograph where that white pipe goes - how long is that horizontal section, and then what?

Here's the pipe in relation to the washing machine. It's a touch lower than where the waste hose emerges from the washing machine. How does the height of the the waste pipe affect the setup?

If the white vertical pipe was extended a couple on inches, it would probably help the splashback, but might then be too high for the W/M's specs. (A taller pipe would just allow more 'head' of water to build up which would assist a bit.)

I think your problem is down to the long run of that waste pipe, coupled with it perhaps having too slight a slope to cope. The issue is, the white pipe empties due to gravity, whereas the W/M actively pumps the water out the grey pipe at quite a rate.

I also have a horrible feeling that the white pipe is only 1 1/4" diameter (~35mm) whereas it should be 1 1/2" - like the pipes under your kitchen sink. That would definitely hinder the flow.

I don't think - I can't see any reason to suspect - that this is down to a blockage, even partial; there are other, more obvious, explanations (pipe run too long, pipe too narrow, slope perhaps not enough for such a run).

Things to try in order of ease: (1) read the W/M's instructions (you'll find them online if you don't have a copy) and look up the max height from the ground that the waste pipe opening can be. Compare that with what you have, and please report back. (2) Measure the size of that white pipe. If it's hard to judge with a tape, then wrap a strip of paper around it, mark where it overlaps = circumference, and divide with a pie. 3 will do. (3) Measure how many metres that pipe run is...

Where is your kitchen sink? Could you post a photo of the pipework under there, please?

I think you're right. I've re-measured and it looks like it is 35mm. The washing machine is in my utility, there's no kitchen sink or other plumbing near it. Just the downstairs toilet that's across the hallway.

The white pipe goes along the outside edge of the room. I can't see all of it, so it could be anywhere from 2.5 metres to 4 metres long depending on where it ends. Unfortunately it goes behind the cupboards that don't come out.

I'll try and dig out the model and manual for the max heigh from ground spec.

rentalforever

Jeepers_Creepers said:

A possible immediate solution - how far down the white pipe does your grey flexi pipe go?

You can move the flexi further along that plastic bend thingy so that the hose end goes a good 3/4 of the way down inside the pipe so the end is just a couple of inches above that first bend. That could well do the trick - the force of water coming out might be enough to drive the water right round that first bend and get it moving away quickly, instead of it filling up that vertical pipe as it currently seems to be doing. Worth a try - a couple of minutes, and no cost.

There's enough give from the grey hose that I can push it down the vertical white pipe, not sure it'll reach all the way but I'll give it a try on the next full wash load. As I said before, this overflow doesn't always happen - I assume that's down to the washing machine deciding how much water to use for the programme and the amount of laundry.

rentalforever

grumbler said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

rentalforever said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

It's not designed to be sealed, as this would risk the water content of the W/M to be syphoned out when you don't want it to be.

Could you post a wider shot to show the height of the vertical white pipe in relation to the W/M itself? It may be that it needs raising a little - that could be all that's required.

Also could you describe/photograph where that white pipe goes - how long is that horizontal section, and then what?

Here's the pipe in relation to the washing machine. It's a touch lower than where the waste hose emerges from the washing machine. How does the height of the the waste pipe affect the setup?

If the white vertical pipe was extended a couple on inches, it would probably help the splashback, but might then be too high for the W/M's specs. (A taller pipe would just allow more 'head' of water to build up which would assist a bit.)

I think your problem is down to the long run of that waste pipe, coupled with it perhaps having too slight a slope to cope. The issue is, the white pipe empties due to gravity, whereas the W/M actively pumps the water out the grey pipe at quite a rate.

...

I don't think - I can't see any reason to believe - that this is down to a blockage, even partial; there are other, more obvious, explanations (... slope perhaps not enough for such a run).

With such big 'head' the slope is almost irrelevant even over few meters.

Usually such kits for washing machines come with their own trap

I wonder where the trap is located in this case.

I don't have a U-Bend on this pipe, at least not one that I can see. I was wondering whether that might be causing the overflow but on reading up on this it seems to help with ensuring harmful gases don't come back up. I think I'll need to pop one on if I'm going to make any changes.

rentalforever

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Just compared Rental's pic with my own setup - RF pretty certainly has 35mm (11/4") pipe, which is simply not large enough, certainly not for a run that long.

Rental, can you come back after trying pushing the hose down further, and see if that does enough to force the water down and along that pipe? If that doesn't work, then short of replacing that white pipe - ideally all of it... - the Screwfix adaptor with a pipe extension above might sort it. That isn't the 'correct' solution, but it could work.

How much water splashes out - a small or a significant amount?

The worst overflow that's happened I'd guess that it's several litres. Certainly not a drip or a trickle.

It always happens towards the end of the cycle when it's doing the rinse programme where I think it uses the most water. The overflow does clear away quite quickly though - the vertical pipe is empty after a few seconds.

Jeepers_Creepers

Thanks for the clarification.

Almost certainly there's no blockage there; it's simply a case of too-small a pipe diameter, and too long a run.

As you suspect, the U-bend is to prevent smells coming back up from the drains, that's all. It doesn't help with flow, and in fact will hinder it a small amount, so it's probably just as well there isn't one fitted!

Yes, the rinse cycles will be the ones of max water flow, hence the problem occurring then (that's good news, as the water is cleaner at that point...)

You cannot trace the pipe after is disappears through the units? Don't they have doors on them?! Or is the pipe behind the backs of the units? Is either of these a sink unit? If so, could you post a photo of the pipework underneath it?

I guess you ain't going to be able to sort this in the proper way - increase the pipe size? This utility room (unique in having no waste pipe!), does it have an outside wall? Could you post a photo of that wall outside, it's whole length?

Yes, first try pushing that grey pipe further down, but stop a good three inches up from the bottom elbow in case you actually end up restricting the hose opening.

If that doesn't work, then it'll have to be a cobbled solution, like adding an extension to that pipe, high enough to prevent the water coming back up out of it, and the hose will connect further down - like using that Screwfix fitting.

A more complex solution (tho' not really complex at all) could be to replace that bottom elbow with a swept tee, with the 'tee' part sweeping up like that elbow does now, and with an extended - and increased to 1/12" size - pipe on it, going up as high as it can - a good foot more than the current one. Then a hose connection spigot fitted to the Tee end to take the hose as shown. I'd hope the hose flow would now be propelled in a straight line directly along that waste pipe, and any backwash would be lessened and in any case be accommodated by the vertical pipe. (Note - the hose would still need to arc upwards in a loop to the height it currently is - all W/M hoses need to do this.

A bit like:

I think this would work, but of course it cures the symptom and not the cause.

grumbler

Jeepers_Creepers said:

A more complex solution (tho' not really complex at all) could be to replace that bottom elbow with a swept tee, with the 'tee' part sweeping up like that elbow does now, and with an extended - and increased to 1/12" size - pipe on it, going up as high as it can - a good foot more than the current one. Then a hose connection spigot fitted to the Tee end to take the hose as shown. I'd hope the hose flow would now be propelled in a straight line directly along that waste pipe, and any backwash would be lessened and in any case be accommodated by the vertical pipe. (Note - the hose would still need to arc upwards in a loop to the height it currently is - all W/M hoses need to do this.

A bit like:

I think this would work, but of course it cures the symptom and not the cause.

I don't see how a bigger pipe going up can change anything, except working like a temporary reservoir for small amounts of water.
It has to be higher in the first place - to create higher 'head' and higher pressure for higher flow.  For this I don't see any point in changing the design - just make the existing pipe higher. AFAIK, usually the manuals specify the minimum height for the top point of the hose before it drops down to the spigot  - to prevent water flowing from the waste pipe to the machine. In this case the hose doesn't need to drop down and can go much higher. I am pretty sure the pump will easily cope with extra half a meter.

KittyKatT135

I had experienced similar situation with my Beko washing machine in my garage.  The washing machine has been fine when it was in a 1st floor apartment (connected to under kitchen sink waste pipe & regular cleaning). In the new set up, it was splashing back when it is in rinse & spin cycle (I’ve used Eco mode & less detergent too).

At first I used chemical drain cleaner to make sure the standing waste pipe & U bend is cleaned — didn’t resolve the issue.

I’ve looked up Beko website to see how far I should insert the waste hose into the standing pipe (they stated max 6” to avoid creating vacuum) — still no joy; the website also stated the maximum height of the waste hose to the floor at 100cm (the standing pipe height was about 65cm off the floor.  We dismantled the standing pipe and U-bend (they were clean as a whistle) and replaced with a standing pipe with the opening at about 90cm off the floor and it seems to have solved the splash back issue.