Can a dentist remove you from their list for no reason?!

welshdent

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Jonty6262 said:

They could always claim universal credit

Well there's an ignorant comment if ever I saw one.

Some just have an irrational hatred of certain groups sadly. Jonty appears to direct his ire at dentists despite displaying ignorance to how dentistry is funded and how dentist’s actually earn money. Hint. They aren’t salaried!

Jonty6262

welshdent said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Jonty6262 said:

They could always claim universal credit

Well there's an ignorant comment if ever I saw one.

Some just have an irrational hatred of certain groups sadly. Jonty appears to direct his ire at dentists despite displaying ignorance to how dentistry is funded and how dentist’s actually earn money. Hint. They aren’t salaried!

I think dentist in general do a fantastic job and think they should be paid well.Just like most doctors, nurses, midwifes, police, paramedics, firefighters etc etc. But please don't try a cry about dentists pay, salaried or not.

Salaried primary care dentists

The Community Dental Services Group supports salaried dentists by providing opportunities for high quality Continuing Professional Development, tailored specifically to their needs and providing regularly updates for members on meeting dates, news and current affairs.

https://bda.org/dentists/governance-and-representation/craft-committees/salaried-primary-care-dentists#:~:text=The Community Dental Services Group,dates, news and current affairs.

brook2jack2

Salaried dentists (community, prison , armed services) are less than 5% of dentists in total. The overwhelming majority are not salaried . 

What the NHS pays has to pay for all the expenses of running a practice , for the staff , buildings, equipment , utilities , training , computer systems unlike gp practices where much of this is provided by the NHS. 

The simple truth is as the costs of providing dental care have rocketed over the last 10 to 15 years  the money provided by the NHS has dramatically not kept pace. Leaving dentists with the choice of going private or shutting their practices entirely. The face that a large organisation like BUPA has shut 85 practices should indicate something very wrong https://www.bupa.co.uk/dental/dental-care/news/dental-changes-news#:~:text=Bupa%20Dental%20Care%20has%20taken,inflation%20and%20high%20energy%20prices.

My young colleagues graduating with £80,000 debt and ever increasing costs of indemnity are voting with their feet , after a few years of practice , and the foreign dentists brought in to prop up the failing NHS dental services are also turning private as they cannot believe how they are expected to work under the NHS . I have Bulgarian, Iranian , Lithuanian dentist friends who came to do NHS dentistry and have now gone private because they could not sustain the rate of work day in day out expected on the NHS. 

Jonty6262

So would those dentist who only want well off patients ever go back to doing NHS treatment?

I know dentist who take NHS patients on, foreign and experienced British so not all are kicking poorer patients off. 

brook2jack2

However statistics show over 90% of dentists doing NHS dentistry are not taking new patients on . 

BUPA closed 85 practices because they couldn't make them cover their costs . A business cannot run if it can't cover its costs and if it is situated in an area of deprivation then people cannot afford private prices and therefore has no choice but to shut. That leaves patients with no where to go . 

The fault lies in a system in which dentistry is not at the back of the queue for funding , it cannot even see the back of the queue. It is telling that not one of the CCG (clinical commissioning groups) that control NHS spending in England has a dentist sitting on them . Dentistry is no one's priority other than the people who , for whatever reason, have to rely on NHS provision and the remaining dentists struggling to provide it . 

welshdent

Jonty6262 said:

welshdent said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Jonty6262 said:

They could always claim universal credit

Well there's an ignorant comment if ever I saw one.

Some just have an irrational hatred of certain groups sadly. Jonty appears to direct his ire at dentists despite displaying ignorance to how dentistry is funded and how dentist’s actually earn money. Hint. They aren’t salaried!

I think dentist in general do a fantastic job and think they should be paid well.Just like most doctors, nurses, midwifes, police, paramedics, firefighters etc etc. But please don't try a cry about dentists pay, salaried or not.

Salaried primary care dentists

The Community Dental Services Group supports salaried dentists by providing opportunities for high quality Continuing Professional Development, tailored specifically to their needs and providing regularly updates for members on meeting dates, news and current affairs.

https://bda.org/dentists/governance-and-representation/craft-committees/salaried-primary-care-dentists#:~:text=The Community Dental Services Group,dates, news and current affairs.

Who is crying a pay? You were the one that brought it up and the  came in with inaccurate assumptions which have all been clarified or corrected. 

welshdent

You are conflating dental groups by the way. You talk about general dentists and then bring up community dentists as an example of dentists being salaried. 

They employ around 1600 dentists in the uk. There are over 42000 dentists in the uk. That’s less than 4% 

Jonty6262

You said dentist  aren't salaried, I was just pointing out you didn't give the full picture of the truth. Unless you mean the 1,600 salaried dentists that you say there is dont really count in your eyes.No need to get upset because you were put right.

Undervalued

brook2jack2 said:

To put into context when I was a solely NHS dentist I never earned enough to pay higher rate tax and neither did most of my associate colleagues (non practice owning). Over 80% of all dentists are not practice owners. 

And to put that into context, the same could be said of a very large proportion of self employed professionals.

A self employed person's taxable income does not directly compare to the salaries earned for employed people doing a similar job. There are many tax advantages to being self employed, balanced to some extent by a reduced entitlement to state benefits should that become relevant. 

Some years ago a number of colleagues and I had to change from being self employed "contractors" to a large academic institution to being salaried academic employees. The organisation paid a sum for each of our accountants to calculate what they felt was a truly equivalent salary. Their finance department also did there own sums and then had to find creative ways of pay us a higher salaries than the posts would normally attract.

Plenty of other organisations, such as the BBC, have had to do similar.

brook2jack2

Then the academic institution was going totally against all accounting principles as it is generally acknowledged that because of holiday pay , sick pay , employers National Insurance contributions , maternity/paternity pay, employers pension contributions (let alone training etc) employees should be paid around 20 to 25% less than self employed to be on a level ish  playing field.