Can a dentist remove you from their list for no reason?!

jaizan

It's slightly illogical.

If there is a shortage of dental capacity, it makes no sense to stop seeing people who do not visit regularly.   Surely it's far better to prioritise essential dental work ahead of check ups ?

silvercar

jaizan said:

It's slightly illogical.

If there is a shortage of dental capacity, it makes no sense to stop seeing people who do not visit regularly.   Surely it's far better to prioritise essential dental work ahead of check ups ?

We are in the world of preventative medicine. The idea of check ups are to take preventative action before big problems occur.

The financing model is broken. For a dentist who was maximising income and doing some NHS work, it would make sense to do NHS check ups and do all treatments privately only. That probably isn't allowed, so the way to get round the system is to do the check ups on existing patients where you know they diligently look after their teeth with regular check ups, rather than those who only make appointments when they have a problem.

Jonty6262

I don't think dentists should kick you off NHS treatment because they are going private only without finding a replacement dentist for you. Pay me more money or on the street you go is the norm now. 

brook2jack2

If a dentist cannot run a business on the NHS without going bust , how are they expected to find a colleague to see someone? BUPA is a big company yet closed over 80 practices because they were making a loss. 

Surely the it is the government , local clinical commissioning group job to ensure a dental contract that in 2006 was deemed not fit for purpose is reformed and a service that has been cut to the bone and beyond actually has some money invested in it. 

Jonty6262

Still think an NHS dentist fails in their duty of care to say to a patient give me more money or your off, toothache or no toothhache.

Undervalued

Jonty6262 said:

Still think an NHS dentist fails in their duty of care to say to a patient give me more money or your off, toothache or no toothhache.

In England and Wales (Scotland and NI are slightly different) you are no longer "their patient" once an agreed course of treatment has been completed. Rightly or wrongly the system is completely different to being registered with a GP.

What I object to, which is against the rules, is a NHS dentist ducking out of providing treatment that the NHS offers because the system makes it uneconomic for them to provide certain procedures. 

Yes, the system is at fault but that doesn't excuse those that have contracted to provide it from evading the duties they have agreed to provide. Where it can be proved, they can get into significant trouble but it is difficult for the patient to pursue.

Obvious examples, which have been discussed on here regularly, are simpler root canals and multiple NHS crowns.

brook2jack2

A dentist either has a NHS contract , in which case if they have capacity they can treat you in the NHS , or is private or is a mixture of both. 

The standard NHS contract payment means that for a toothache appointment (urgent band ) before tax , indemnity , insurance, cost of training, student loan , etc etc , the dentist will come away with around £9. That covers the treatment, x rays etc which, with writing up notes and paper work , setting up , cleaning down will take a minimum of 20 minutes. 

Bear in mind that as a self employed person the dentist gets no sick pay, holiday pay , pay for time taken off for mandatory training courses. 

In NHS practice it costs a MINIMUM of £140 an hour per room to run the practice. A private practice will cost much more per hour £200 upwards. 

In essence the NHS dentist would be better off giving you £20 to go and see someone else . The privately the  dentist can actually charge you what it costs to provide healthcare in the U.k

This is why NHS dentists are giving up contracts because they are losing money seeing a patient on the NHS . Having made that decision , in order to avoid bankruptcy , it is inevitable they will charge more than the derisory NHS fees. 

The responsibility lies solely in the hands of those who have decided for the past 15 years to effectively cut money put into NHS dentistry by 30% to set up a functioning dental service. 

Jonty6262

I'm in tears thinking of all the poor dentists.Maybe we could set up a crowd funding page for em.

brook2jack2

If you are to stop the mass exodus of dentists from the NHS , it's support for the suicidal ,stressed workforce that's needed and being valued by those who run the health service, not just in monetary terms . Something is wrong when one in ten dentists contemplate suicide in a year. https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/health/british-dentists-feel-suicidal-amid-soaring-pressures-as-whitehall-turns-a-blind-eye-to-the-crisis-3043919

maisie_cat

This isn't new, our NHS dentist in Surrey had a "miss a 6 month checkup and you're out" rule as far back as 2010