Probate... Who should pay council tax?

RonsDaughter

My mother died October 2019 but my brother (who owns his own house that he pays council tax on) used her property to store items for his market stall business. The local council are charging him council tax for both his own home where he sleeps, and for my mothers house where he stores his goods. This is currently under review, but looks likely he will have to pay for both properties. Probate was granted in January and we have until June to sell the property etc, however, if the house remains unsold, will my mother's estate have to foot the council tax bill, or should my brother continue to pay as he will continue to use the house? The house also still contains my mother's belongings. 

Flugelhorn

the estate would normally pay for the council tax but in the circumstances perhaps your brother should be paying the estate a fee for using the place as storage (equivalent to the council tax maybe?)

RonsDaughter

Getting my brother to pay a penny for anything would be like getting the proverbial blood out of a stone. He is holding up his purchase of the house, trying to get a lower price (he inherits 50/50 with me, and we are both executors), he's been trying to force the estate to pay the council tax on mother's house for his business, so now if the estate takes over payment in June, I expect he will just put his feet up and refuse to move. He has been using the property since mother died and has paid the c tax but no rent. Is there any legal way he can be made to continue payments?

Keep_pedalling

Unless the property is unoccupied CT is usually paid by the occupier rather than the owner. In this case I would have thought business rate should apply as the house is being used by his business, and he is solely responsible for those.

Does the council know what he is using it for? 

xylophone

Normally the estate would pay CT and other expenses of maintaining the property until it was sold but there are certain considerations here.

It appears that the property is solely used by your brother as a warehouse - it seems to me therefore that if the estate pays, there should be a deduction from his share of the sale proceeds once the property is sold.

Are you indicating that he wishes to buy you out?

HappyScotsman

I'm not quite sure I fully understand your plight.

If he's already paying the CT on your mother's house, surely the council will carry on taking payments from his bank account after June? Does the council realise your late mother's house is now his second home so liable for full CT? To my understanding, the estate isn't a legal entity so the council can't pursue it for debt. If your brother stops paying, it is still his name on the CT register and they know where he lives so a pretty easy debt to chase.

Is he trying to buy your share of the house from you? 

Of course, there is also the legal route to go down to have him removed as executor if all else fails. It doesn't alter his behaviour, but does open up the options like having him evicted, small claims court, sending bailiffs to his other address etc. But that's a very ugly way to go.

Marcon

RonsDaughter said:

My mother died October 2019 but my brother (who owns his own house that he pays council tax on) used her property to store items for his market stall business. The local council are charging him council tax for both his own home where he sleeps, and for my mothers house where he stores his goods. This is currently under review, but looks likely he will have to pay for both properties. Probate was granted in January and we have until June to sell the property etc, however, if the house remains unsold, will my mother's estate have to foot the council tax bill, or should my brother continue to pay as he will continue to use the house? The house also still contains my mother's belongings. 

Your brother. He's using the house.

getmore4less

The real issue here seems to be you getting your share if he is supposed to be buying you out.

that's what needs addressing 
is it on the open market or is he just  stalling till you give in and accept less? 


The estate would have had the class F exemption for 6 months from date of grant which is what you seem to be referring to.
 

As occupier he should pay and continue to pay


Selling when it is like a warehouse may not be easy.

RonsDaughter

Keep_pedalling said:

Unless the property is unoccupied CT is usually paid by the occupier rather than the owner. In this case I would have thought business rate should apply as the house is being used by his business, and he is solely responsible for those.

Does the council know what he is using it for? 

Yes, the council were informed and they checked it out themselves and are charging my brother the relevant amount, although he is contesting it as he doesn't sleep there.

RonsDaughter

xylophone said:

Normally the estate would pay CT and other expenses of maintaining the property until it was sold but there are certain considerations here.

It appears that the property is solely used by your brother as a warehouse - it seems to me therefore that if the estate pays, there should be a deduction from his share of the sale proceeds once the property is sold.

Are you indicating that he wishes to buy you out?

Hi, yes. My brother wishes to buy my 50% but naturally he wants the lowest price possible. I'm happy to negotiate, but my worry is that if CT has to be paid by the estate (a lot of my mother's collectibles are still there), he will just dig his heels in until I cave in. I have no intention of doing so, but the longer it goes on, the more it devalues my share. But if, as occupier, he is responsible for CT (which he really objects to paying) then I feel I'm in a better position and not on a deadline to sort it out.

RonsDaughter

getmore4less said:

The real issue here seems to be you getting your share if he is supposed to be buying you out.

that's what needs addressing 
is it on the open market or is he just  stalling till you give in and accept less? 


The estate would have had the class F exemption for 6 months from date of grant which is what you seem to be referring to.
 

As occupier he should pay and continue to pay


Selling when it is like a warehouse may not be easy.

Thanks for your insight.
Yes, he wants to buy me out and is trying to wheedle a really low price.

There are problems with the house that were evident when it was valued for probate. He didn't complain about the valuation then but is now saying that it will cost x amount to fix, therefore he will only offer x amount.

He's also saying some of the damage is worse, but he didn't inform me of this until last week. (I live 200 miles away so haven't seen the property since the funeral)

I know I can raise issues that will get him removed as executor (in fact, the solicitor has already threatened it over an earlier issue) but I'd rather sort it out more kindly. And quickly!

Putting the house on the open market will just add to the length of time, plus, I'd then have the hassle of getting him to remove his junk.