A question for anyone who's been following Economy 7 rates for more than a few years

shipontherocks

The night rate has doubled from 4.5p per kWh in 2019.
Now it's around 8.5p.
How does this change fit into the longer price fluctuations?
Does the Night Rate bounce up and down so much every few years or is it a one off price hike that's followed the more general electricity price increase that is apparently happening?

Yet the Day rate on Economy 7 tariffs seems to have come down in the same time period. Was around 24.5p in 2019, but now is around 20p.
If this is a trend going forward, then it has made people who use a large percentage of their electricity during the night, (NSH, immersion heaters, etc) worse off in a big way.

It'd be interesting to see historical prices for such things going back five years or so. How likely is it that the night rate comes down below 5p again? As likely as some boiling hot place freezing over, I guess.

Any suggestions on any cheap Night Rate tariffs? (in the South East if that matters) It's tough to ferret out good deals on comparison sites because I haven't found any way to sort by Night Rate. Is there a more efficient way to search or should I just trust the algorithm to show me best deals first based on my high % night consumption?

Cheers

Sailbad

try putting your night consumption down as 100%  that will sort the results by night rate.

Cardew

You are absolutely correct that E7 prices have increased markedly in recent years.

It is not just the 7 hour rate to be considered, but the premium those on an E7 tariff pay on their 17 hours high rate over those who on the 'normal' single(24/7) rate; also the difference in the daily standing charge.

To complicate matter even more, E7 tariffs varied in different areas of the country.

Given that solar generation is increasing, I suspect the days of cheap night electricity are gone forever.  

shipontherocks

That's excellent out of the box thinking, @Sailbad, thanks!

I'm sad to see my observations confirmed, @Cardew.  I use over 10,000 kWt at night, a year, I wish I spotted this trend a couple of years ago.  I'm suprised there aren't more threads here discussing it because I was under the impression there are quite a few people on Economy 7 rates. 

Tallerdave

It might be worth looking at tariffs intended for electric vehicle owners, although they may only offer a few hours of cheap rate overnight. It would be interesting to look at the economics of fitting a powerwall battery and taking a fill yer boots as fast as you can approach on the battery & storage heaters whenever the cheap rate's active.

Sadly, the smart meter revolution hasn't brought the dynamic market I had hoped for. I imagined a world where Tesco Energy would offer overnight "buy one get one free" offers so you could charge a car/powerwall and then switch back to a Boring Big 6 supplier in the morning. I think it’s only Octopus who have any desire to stimulate this aspect of the market.

btr30

I am not a night time user, but I would have thought that TOD pricing via smart meters would have been utilised to move peak day time load to night time, to take up generation capacity of wind turbines, and balance the profile?
Obviously not yet.

Cardew

Tallerdave said:

It might be worth looking at tariffs intended for electric vehicle owners, although they may only offer a few hours of cheap rate overnight. It would be interesting to look at the economics of fitting a powerwall battery and taking a fill yer boots as fast as you can approach on the battery & storage heaters whenever the cheap rate's active.

A 13.5kWh powerwall battery costs around £8,000 to £10,000 to install - I would have thought that would kill any economic case.

coffeehound

btr30 said:

I am not a night time user, but I would have thought that TOD pricing via smart meters would have been utilised to move peak day time load to night time, to take up generation capacity of wind turbines, and balance the profile?
Obviously not yet.

Good point; if wiki is to be believed, a quarter of generation is now from wind.  Nuclear also doesn't like turning off, so another chunk of night time base load there.  

Cardew

shipontherocks said:

I'm sad to see my observations confirmed, @Cardew.  I use over 10,000 kWt at night, a year, I wish I spotted this trend a couple of years ago.  I'm suprised there aren't more threads here discussing it because I was under the impression there are quite a few people on Economy 7 rates. 

I have had an E7 meter in my present house for over 30 years; I also have gas CH. so don't use electrity for heating.

Like many on this forum I used to calculate a break-even point where the percentage of consumption in the economy 7 period justified an E7 tariff. The calculation of this break-even point had to take into account the 'premium' paid on the 17 hour high rate and any increase on the daily standing charge.

A generally accepted 'rule of thumb' was that you needed to use 30% cheap rate electricity to justify an E7 tariff. However this break-even percentage has varied widely over the last 30+ years. It has been as low as 0%* and the last time I looked it was around 40%. For years it hovered around 10% to 15%.

* For a brief period London Energy(now defunct) had an E7 tariff that had a lower daytime rate (for the 17 hours) than their 'normal' 24/7 rate on a non E7 tariff - and their 'normal' price was competitive

coffeehound

Cardew said:

A generally accepted 'rule of thumb' was that you needed to use 30% cheap rate electricity to justify an E7 tariff. However this break-even percentage has varied widely over the last 30+ years. It has been as low as 0%* and the last time I looked it was around 40%. For years it hovered around 10% to 15%.

I suppose a major difference in the earlier days of E7 was that only the storage heaters and water heating went onto the cheap rate, and everything else stayed on peak rate all the time.  But then off-peak was much cheaper and we had fewer appliances on overnight.

Gerry1

coffeehound said:

I suppose a major difference in the earlier days of E7 was that only the storage heaters and water heating went onto the cheap rate, and everything else stayed on peak rate all the time.  But then off-peak was much cheaper and we had fewer appliances on overnight.

There were tariffs like that and probably still are, but I'm fairly sure that E7 has always switched the whole supply over to the cheap rate. E7 was a refinement of the eight-hour White Meter tariff.