challenging total loss valuation

crex

My issue is very similar to this thread, right down to the same insurer (Admiral) https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6183502/how-can-i-dispute-write-off-valuation

Essentially, following an accident yesterday, Admiral have decided that my vehicle is a write-off. The damage is very limited (broked track rod, dented wing, smashed indicator), but they are insisting it's a total loss due to the age of the vehicle (02 plate). The vehicle has 116k miles on the clock, 7 months MOT to run, in good working order.
Today they offered me a 'market value' settlement of £550, based on the Glass guide. After a lot of persuading, they revisited it - this time they offered £696, based on the CAP guide. I asked where the market was where I could buy a replacement for anything like these prices! Admiral insist that their regulations require that they use these guide prices.
I did a quick search of recently completed sales on ebay as close to my spec as possible, filtering on vehicles registered 2000-2004 and over 100k mlles. This brought up 10 results in the past month, between £750 and £2000. All those that sold under £1500 were spares or repair / non-runner. The one that was overall closest to mine went for £1550, but was lower mileage (105k).
Admiral insist that ebay and autotrader prices are irrelevant as they only reveal asking prices, not sale prices. They completely ignored the fact that I had researched completed sales. It has been left that they will revisit it one last time, but I'm not holding out much hope. What are my options for challenging this?
I am very familiar with the second hand market for this vehicle (Isuzu Trooper), so I just cannot understand how the guides can be so far removed from what I know to be the reality - how is this possible?
TIA

Thrugelmir

crex said:

The damage is very limited (broked track rod, dented wing, smashed indicator), 

What's the estimated repair cost? Presumably this is just the visible damage. 

crex

Thrugelmir said:

crex said:

The damage is very limited (broked track rod, dented wing, smashed indicator), 

What's the estimated repair cost? Presumably this is just the visible damage. 

That's true, it's what I identified at the scene and reported to the insurer. But they haven't gone further than that - they're basing the write-off on what I've told them, and the age of the vehicle. I suspect there isn't much more damage as it wasn't a very high speed collision, but of course, you never know.
But it's not so much the total loss decision that I have a problem, although it did surprise me. It's the massive disparity between the valuation from the trade guides the insurer is relying on, and what I know to be the real-world market value of these vehicles.

MrFrugalFever

Hi, we all think we know what the ‘real world’ market value of our cars are but unfortunately the systems used within the insurance industry and trade will be far more accurate than what Joe bloggs has posted on eBay 2 weeks ago. 

What value did you originally agree on when you renewed your insurance? What excess have you paid?

in all reality, when push comes to shove, whether they offer you your £1,500 or not, ultimately it is you who will lose out - premium will increase on renewal, no car (unless buy back and repair) and unlikely to get a value that reflects a few recently sold examples.

you can only but argue your case, providing as much evidence as necessary, they will have the final say. With the greatest of respect, they really won’t want to be spending much man power on a case that’s a few hundred quid, sad as it may be.

crex

MrFrugalFever said:

Hi, we all think we know what the ‘real world’ market value of our cars are but unfortunately the systems used within the insurance industry and trade will be far more accurate than what Joe bloggs has posted on eBay 2 weeks ago. 

What value did you originally agree on when you renewed your insurance? What excess have you paid?

in all reality, when push comes to shove, whether they offer you your £1,500 or not, ultimately it is you who will lose out - premium will increase on renewal, no car (unless buy back and repair) and unlikely to get a value that reflects a few recently sold examples.

you can only but argue your case, providing as much evidence as necessary, they will have the final say. With the greatest of respect, they really won’t want to be spending much man power on a case that’s a few hundred quid, sad as it may be.

I would have thought that too. But I simply could not go out tomorrow and buy a like-for-like replacement for what they're offering, anywhere. The best I could get at that price is a spares or repair / non-runner. I just don't understand how that can be the market value

TELLIT01

Trade guides provide a figure for what would be offered if you traded the car in, not the true replacement value.  I strongly believe that insurers should have to show where a similar vehicle to the one being claimed for can be purchased.  If jewellery has to be replaced many insurers say you have to use their approved suppliers or they reduce the payout.  There is absolutely no reason the same couldn't be done for cars.

Aretnap

TELLIT01 said:

Trade guides provide a figure for what would be offered if you traded the car in, not the true replacement value. 

This is not true. They provide several figures for each type of car - the trade in price, the private sale price, the dealer price, the auction price etc.

Even the free online Parkers version provides two different prices; the full paid for versions provide several more.


The Financial Ombudsman's position is that the dealer price should be used. 

jimbo6977

Trade-in value of a 2002 120k car is likely to be pennies, unless it's something pretty interesting. 

Retail value of such a car is difficult to calculate accurately because most retail dealers aren't fishing in those waters - it's not worth their time or trouble, again unless the car is something interesting.

I wouldn't have wanted this sort of case on my desk when I worked in Total Loss Claims - they are a massive pain to value, the "books" won't agree with each other, you have to ask your boss for permission to settle above top book, and the excess often swallows most of the settlement which annoys the customer even more!

WhatCar? and Parkers offer online valuation guides for consumers, but do they go back as far as 2002? I'm not sure but it might be worth a look. 

You can always raise a formal complaint in line with Admiral's complaints procedure, await the outcome, and then if you remain unsatisfied you can go to the FOS if you wish.

Aretnap

jimbo6977 said:

WhatCar? and Parkers offer online valuation guides for consumers, but do they go back as far as 2002? I'm not sure but it might be worth a look.

Parker's seems to go back that far.

The OP doesn't say what the exact model is, so I had to take a wild guess. That may affect things a bit, as may the mileage. But at first glance the valuation he's been offered sounds on the low side - unless the figures he's quoting are after his excess has been deducted.

MrFrugalFever

Parker’s and Whatcar valuations aren’t worth the websites their written on. Why? Since when has Parker’s bought or sold cars?
Autotrader is the largest and most accurate trading platform for car sales and the CAP valuation guide (Current Auction Prices) is used as the mainstream vehicle valuation tool (in conjunction with CAP ID HPI) by most major dealers across the UK network.

a note to the OP, get them to verify the CAP retail value of your vehicle as I suspect the £696 is a dealer trade-in ‘showroom condition’, not what you could buy it for.

jimbo6977

MrFrugalFever said:

Parker’s and Whatcar valuations aren’t worth the websites their written on. Why? Since when has Parker’s bought or sold cars?
Autotrader is the largest and most accurate trading platform for car sales and the CAP valuation guide (Current Auction Prices) is used as the mainstream vehicle valuation tool (in conjunction with CAP ID HPI) by most major dealers across the UK network.

a note to the OP, get them to verify the CAP retail value of your vehicle as I suspect the £696 is a dealer trade-in ‘showroom condition’, not what you could buy it for.

Parkers uses CAP data, Although exactly how they use it is another matter.