How can I dispute write-off valuation?

treeroy

Hi
2 months ago I bought a Honda Civic Type R, for £2,200. I wrote it off last week and have today got the insurance valuation of £1,100 
This figure is complete rubbish. I have been arguing with Admiral and they have offered an extra £200 as an incentive to make an agreement. 

I believe the car should be worth at least £1,800. The idea that you can buy a civic type R for £1,100 is not based in reality. You could not even buy a beaten up 250,000 mile example for that price. 
They said because my car has 170,000 miles, and 7 owners, that the Glass Guide says it is worth £1,100.

So i have some questions:
- is Glass Guide valuation the law? like legally I am only entitled to whatever Glass says. I don't know how Glass makes all their valuations but it is clearly wrong for this car.
- How can I get a higher valuation? What routes can I go down to get the correct value for the vehicle.

I have been given the option to refuse and if I give "evidence" that the vehicle is worth more then they will consider it. But I asked the bloke on the phone. I said that I have seen lots of auctions on ebay (which in my opinion give an actual market value, rather than a  meaningless list price), and have seen cars with higher mileage than mine sell for over £2,000. However, they said that they would not consider this to be valid evidence.

I don't understand how insurance company is allowed to just make up a stupid low figure and I just have to accept it.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

hollie.weimeraner

You need to provide them with evidence.  So the best advice would be to search auto trader for vehicles as near to possible the same as yours (mileage, condition, service history etc) and see what they're selling for. Provide them with the evidence and see what they say (always assuming the valuations are in your favour), also do a valuation on WBAC and see what that comes up as.

treeroy

hollie.weimeraner said:

You need to provide them with evidence.  So the best advice would be to search auto trader for vehicles as near to possible the same as yours (mileage, condition, service history etc) and see what they're selling for. Provide them with the evidence and see what they say (always assuming the valuations are in your favour), also do a valuation on WBAC and see what that comes up as.

They specifically say that they will not consider classified ads as they are list prices. Which is fair enough. 

I asked the operator what evidence they would consider but he said he could not tell me.

"

You Have Rejected This Valuation

Please be aware we do not consider advertised prices as they do not reflect the true value of the vehicle. Often vehicles will be advertised for more than they are expected to sell for. Your valuation is based on actual selling prices across the UK for its make, model, year of manufacture, mileage and condition. Additionally, we cannot consider any recent work carried out on the vehicle, particularly where that work is considered general maintenance as it is a term and condition of your policy to ensure your vehicle is well maintained and road worthy. If you still wish to discuss this valuation further, please confirm any justifications you would like us to consider below

"

AdrianC

treeroy said:

So i have some questions:
- is Glass Guide valuation the law? like legally I am only entitled to whatever Glass says. I don't know how Glass makes all their valuations but it is clearly wrong for this car.
- How can I get a higher valuation? What routes can I go down to get the correct value for the vehicle.
...
I don't understand how insurance company is allowed to just make up a stupid low figure and I just have to accept it.

Your insurance policy will state that you are entitled to a fair market value for the car.
That fair market value is determined by referring to the industry standard price guides, wherever possible. Glass's is perhaps the best known and most long-standing of those industry-standard guides. So, no, it's not "law", but if it came to the law, then there would be a great deal of credence placed on its figures.

Something as generic as a Honda Civic will most certainly be in those price guides. One with a lot of owners and a lot of miles is going to be at the lower end of the price range for that particular type of car - especially where it's the type of car that lots of owners tends to suggest it's been subject to a fair degree of abuse in its life.

What age of Civic are we talking about here, anyway?

If you cannot come to an agreement with your insurer, you can escalate the matter to the financial ombudsman.
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/motor-insurance/vehicle-valuations-write-offs

Car_54

hollie.weimeraner said:

You need to provide them with evidence.  So the best advice would be to search auto trader for vehicles as near to possible the same as yours (mileage, condition, service history etc) and see what they're selling for.

You won't. You'll see what their owners are asking. Always more than the selling price, often wildly optimistic. Sometimes deluded.

AdrianC

£1550 sold price, 150k miles
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174387965847

£1550 sold price, 130k miles
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283972774605

£1,600 sold price, 150k miles
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324255148540

Plenty of other scruffy, leggier cars for cheaper with expired or failed MOTs, including some considerably newer.

And that's just a very quick search of one source.

treeroy

AdrianC said:

treeroy said:

So i have some questions:
- is Glass Guide valuation the law? like legally I am only entitled to whatever Glass says. I don't know how Glass makes all their valuations but it is clearly wrong for this car.
- How can I get a higher valuation? What routes can I go down to get the correct value for the vehicle.
...
I don't understand how insurance company is allowed to just make up a stupid low figure and I just have to accept it.

Your insurance policy will state that you are entitled to a fair market value for the car.
That fair market value is determined by referring to the industry standard price guides, wherever possible. Glass's is perhaps the best known and most long-standing of those industry-standard guides. So, no, it's not "law", but if it came to the law, then there would be a great deal of credence placed on its figures.

Something as generic as a Honda Civic will most certainly be in those price guides. One with a lot of owners and a lot of miles is going to be at the lower end of the price range for that particular type of car - especially where it's the type of car that lots of owners tends to suggest it's been subject to a fair degree of abuse in its life.

What age of Civic are we talking about here, anyway?

If you cannot come to an agreement with your insurer, you can escalate the matter to the financial ombudsman.
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/motor-insurance/vehicle-valuations-write-offs

Thanks AdrianC.
I understand that they use these industry standard guide. But the guide is simply wrong. It is not possible to buy a Type R for £1,100.

If this was just for generic Honda Civic then I would understand. But the Civic Type R and Civic should be listed as different cars I would have thought? As they are registered as different vehicles models on DVLA. Do you know if there is a way to find out if the trade guide is including the Type R in with a regular Civic? 
I would not expect a standard Civic with this age/mileage to be valued at £1,100 which leads me to suspect that they are just considering the Type R on its own.

The car is 2004. 

If you look at for example this one selling on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EP3-Honda-Civic-Type-R-Cosmic-Grey/283983993097
It's a 2004 model type R with 145,000 miles, ok slightly less than mine but not much. It's up to £2,100 with 18 bids and I imagine will sell around £3k.

Thank you for the link to the Ombudsman. Reading through that page, it says 

What we look at

We use trade guides as an indication of what a fair valuation should be.

So it looks like the ombudsman would not help. Because the trade guide price is wrong.

It is my understanding of insurance valuation that the valuation should be the amount required to replace the car, yes? If I offered £1,100 to anyone selling a 200,000 mile civic type R, i would be laughed at. 

I look at ebay all the time to see how much other cars sell for, and all civic type Rs sell for over £2,000 even at high 180k+ miles.

I don't know how the trade guides get their prices. How do they actualy know how much private sales are sold for? 
If the trade guide is wrong, is there any real likelihood of me seeing a better price?  

AdrianC

treeroy said:

I understand that they use these industry standard guide. But the guide is simply wrong. It is not possible to buy a Type R for £1,100.

They're already up to £1,300, though.
And I've linked to three cars sold for not much more than that, one of which has 25% lower mileage than yours.

If this was just for generic Honda Civic then I would understand. But the Civic Type R and Civic should be listed as different cars I would have thought? As they are registered as different vehicles models on DVLA. Do you know if there is a way to find out if the trade guide is including the Type R in with a regular Civic?

No, they'll break Civics into all the different specs, so will be basing the valuation on your particular spec of Civic. Obviously, assuming that was correctly described on the policy docs.

It is my understanding of insurance valuation that the valuation should be the amount required to replace the car, yes?

No, it's the market value of your car immediately before the collision.
There may not be another similar one available, so "the amount required to replace" may not be a relevant figure.

I don't know how the trade guides get their prices.

These are big businesses, whose entire customer base depends their accuracy. http://www.glassbusiness.co.uk/transparency/

treeroy

Thank you for the links to those adverts. Didn't realise you could find previous expired listings.
Two of those examples are faulty cars, one with a broken engine and other with broken gearbox, and both sold for £1,500. I will use those examples in my response to admiral.

Mercdriver

To be fair, a type R is a different animal to a Granmothermobile Civic.  

pramsay13

To dispute a valuation you need to gather evidence.
I would say eBay completed listing prices is evidence but probably not very strong on its own. 
You are also looking for other evidence, maybe a quote from We Buy Any Car would help, along with other sources.
Autotrader can give you an indication although as mentioned some people pluck a figure out of mid air so it doesn't mean it's accurate.
Some adverts from used car dealers would help too and if you can get some sold prices that would be even better.