Downstairs toilet in kitchen, can I knock it down?

Doozergirl

Hasbeen said:

Lar4893 said:

Hi, we have just bought our first house together in wales. We have a downstairs toilet in the kitchen, for us this is a wasted space and we would rather a bigger kitchen.
Is there any regulations stopping us doing this?
Our estate agents doesn't and hasn't heard of anythong stopping us from going ahead. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks. 

If as you say the actual toilet is in the kitchen? Next to kitchen units washing machine?
Then these days not allowed. LOL.

It has been allowed for so many years since it wasn't.   At least 15 from my own learned experience and probably since the 1999 rules on accessibility.  

Rosa_Damascena

Doozergirl said:

TELLIT01 said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

ic said:

Depends on the age of the house.
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/34/kitchens_and_bathrooms/4

Any dwelling unit that has been constructed after 1999 will have a ground floor toilet installed which has been designed to cater for any visiting wheelchair users.

During any re-fitting, this toilet should not be removed and the accessibility of the toilet should not be made any worse, as it would then be inadequate for future wheelchair users.

For these reasons, a building regulations application may be required if any alteration is to take place to an existing ground floor toilet.

I'm stunned by this.

I bought a 2001 build and you couldn't swing a cat in the cloakroom, let alone get a wheelchair manouvred into place.

My sister-in-law lives in a 5 year old house.  The door to the downstairs loo is wide and opens into the hall but there would be no way to decamp from a wheelchair in there with the door shut.

The rules are that it needs to be accessible for disabled people. 

Disabilities are specific to the person and yes, it would be very hard in the average house to enable a wheelchair user and their carer, even, to get in, shut the door and move everyone and thing around, but someone partially mobile should be able to get themselves from chair to loo with the minimum of manoeuvring themselves.   Or indeed be manoeuvred from chair to loo with the dignity bit carried out subsequently behind a closed door.   The positioning, width and opening direction of the door all help with that.  

We should think about our homes, our visitors and about our future selves in the many different ways there are of living between perfectly fit and virtually incapable.  

That's exactly what I am doing

It has to be said that forward planning in this way is not MSE - if you are genuinely disabled conversion grants are available - but it does buy me peace of mind to a degree, and that is invaluable.

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Lar. If it isn't holding anything up, then rip it out.

If that's what YOU want for YOUR home, then do it.

When you come to sell, part of the info you can share to anyone who expresses concern about a lack of downstairs loo is that there's room to have one reinstated - and that is then their call.

Our current house had a small loo/shower built in between a small connie-type extension and the kitchen, as the previous occupants were an elderly couple and they practically lived in this extension room. One of the first things I did was to remove the shower unit and pottery and shelve it out - everything went in there...

Mum-in-law moved in with us a few years back (and built another extension room for this), so I cleared out the loo and reinstated the pottery (which I'd kept in the garage).

Should she move out before we sell, it's all coming back out again - and I'll then move the W/M in there, as well as shelving.

Horses for courses. I'd never have it as a slightly-more-convenient loo for ourselves. (But then we do have another loo downstairs.)

As long as you don't bring the house down with it, Lar, then do with it as YOU wish.

Apodemus

Before you start wielding the sledgehammer, though, it might be worth checking how the waste is plumbed and how the soil stack functions, just in case you upset the arrangements for the upstairs loo!  

Doozergirl

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Hi Lar. If it isn't holding anything up, then rip it out.

If that's what YOU want for YOUR home, then do it.

When you come to sell, part of the info you can share to anyone who expresses concern about a lack of downstairs loo is that there's room to have one reinstated - and that is then their call.

Our current house had a small loo/shower built in between a small connie-type extension and the kitchen, as the previous occupants were an elderly couple and they practically lived in this extension room. One of the first things I did was to remove the shower unit and pottery and shelve it out - everything went in there...

Mum-in-law moved in with us a few years back (and built another extension room for this), so I cleared out the loo and reinstated the pottery (which I'd kept in the garage).

Should she move out before we sell, it's all coming back out again - and I'll then move the W/M in there, as well as shelving.

Horses for courses. I'd never have it as a slightly-more-convenient loo for ourselves. (But then we do have another loo downstairs.)

As long as you don't bring the house down with it, Lar, then do with it as YOU wish.

...unless it contravenes the building regulations in place at the time the property was built, in which case you should give it a little bit more thought.  

Rosa_Damascena

Doozergirl said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Hi Lar. If it isn't holding anything up, then rip it out.

If that's what YOU want for YOUR home, then do it.

When you come to sell, part of the info you can share to anyone who expresses concern about a lack of downstairs loo is that there's room to have one reinstated - and that is then their call.

Our current house had a small loo/shower built in between a small connie-type extension and the kitchen, as the previous occupants were an elderly couple and they practically lived in this extension room. One of the first things I did was to remove the shower unit and pottery and shelve it out - everything went in there...

Mum-in-law moved in with us a few years back (and built another extension room for this), so I cleared out the loo and reinstated the pottery (which I'd kept in the garage).

Should she move out before we sell, it's all coming back out again - and I'll then move the W/M in there, as well as shelving.

Horses for courses. I'd never have it as a slightly-more-convenient loo for ourselves. (But then we do have another loo downstairs.)

As long as you don't bring the house down with it, Lar, then do with it as YOU wish.

...unless it contravenes the building regulations in place at the time the property was built, in which case you should give it a little bit more thought.  

It will come back to bite when it comes to selling if you don't.

OP - we know you're in Wales, when was your house built?

rach_k

Would it be possible to make it into a utility room or pantry and leave the loo and basin in place (or perhaps replace them with smaller versions if they're taking up too much room?).  At my childhood home, the downstairs loo was off the kitchen but we also had the tumble dryer and shelving in there so it was a really useful space.

Now, I'd love a downstairs loo, utility room and pantry so if two out of three would be great for me!  A good pantry will save loads of space in the kitchen as it'd be one big cupboard really, so that might give you extra space in the kitchen for whatever you want in there.

Jeepers_Creepers

Doozergirl said:

As long as you don't bring the house down with it, Lar, then do with it as YOU wish.

...unless it contravenes the building regulations in place at the time the property was built, in which case you should give it a little bit more thought.  

Yes you should.

But I wouldn't.

There comes a limit, you know...

If Lars plans to make this their home for the next, ooh, 5-10 years or even less, then it would be 'silly' in my view to compromise on their plans in order to only oblige a reg that will have no bearing on their lifestyle.

If it would need reinstating when they come to sell up - and I doubt very much it would - then they should factor in that potential cost and upheaval into the whole process.

If that is the only loo downstairs, then - yes - that will certainly put a lot of people off, regardless of regs. But it's Lar's call whether to anticipate this and reinstate the loo beforehand, or whether to simply point out that the soil pipe - by FAR the most important factor - is already present which would allow a relatively cheap reinstallation for the new owner.

If it were my house and if I didn't want that loo, I'd get rid - no question, and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I would, however, cap off the soil pipe properly and carefully, whilst ensuring it wouldn't take too much to reinstate it.

Doozergirl

What you would do is one thing.  What you advise others to do is another.  You were pretty forceful in condoning something that  contravenes BRs in many cases and and affects the ability of disabled people to even visit able bodied friends.  

I wasn't able to have my aunt and uncle visit from oop north for nearly a decade and could only meet a friend in certain places because we had no downstairs loo and no practical space.  These aren't old people. My own mother was disabled at 29.  My in laws are older though and FIL can't climb stairs easily.    

If someone's house was designed specifically to accommodate the needs of future visitor and residents needs, it needs a little more thought than just those about ME today.    

Jeepers_Creepers

Fair do's Doozer, but I'm pretty sure Lars will be aware of his family's and friends' needs too, and will be giving that consideration.

He may possibly have a house that has a loo only for 'regs' reasons, whereas countless others have no loo downstairs as the regs didn't oblige this, so he has to keep that loo just in case a disabled person comes knocking?

Come on.

I've viewed quite a few houses over the past couple of years with my sis and mum in law as they try and find a place they can share. Sis wants an older style house, and a few had no loo downstairs. Clearly part of considering these houses involved discussing where a downstairs loo could go. At no point did any of us despair at the inadequacy of 'regs' that should have obliged a loo to have been squeezed in there somehow just for our eventuality.

Ok, that's taking the mick, but you know what I'm saying. Lars knows his/her own circumstances, and can make a grown-up decision based on this. To have their house - out of countless others - nobbled because of an in-this-case meaningless reg would not be 'right' in my books.