Final offers

mooncake89

Hi all,

I wanted to ask for some support or advice about the situation we've found ourselves in. 
Long post incoming - sorry! Like many others, I'm guessing, we've been having a nightmare of a time trying to find a house. I'd estimate we've probably spent about 6 months now looking... 3 months semi-seriously and 3 super seriously (since going under offer on our own place).

We've recently come across a house we really like, in our preferred location (a few have come up before, but we missed out on one due to not having sold yet and a couple of others just weren't suitable. Typically what we are looking for is going to take longer to come up here due to there not being as many houses). Initially it was out of our budget but we have since been able to up our max in order to just about be able to go for this one at its asking price and still manage a 60% LTV. So, we viewed it and found out that someone else had put an offer in but wasn't proceedable. We then went straight in at the asking price ourselves (we felt, having looked around for a while now and getting a good feel for the nuts current market, that it was worth it and we didn't want to mess around so were hoping to secure it without additional stress). At this point the house has been on the market for around 2 weeks, which is quite long considering how fast everything else has been going in the area.

We were told, disappointingly, by the agent that the sellers wanted to wait to see what the outcome of another couple's second viewing was before accepting our offer, so we've spent an anxious few days expecting to find out that we've been out-offered. Fast forward to yesterday when the EA calls to tell us that that viewing didn't result in an offer being made but (coincidentally!) the earlier non-proceedable person who put in an offer has now found a buyer for their own property and also has an asking price offer on the table. The EA told us that the seller now doesn't know what to do, so basically has instructed him to ask us to go to sealed and final bids (so just between the two of us). 

This is obviously frustrating for us as we're in quite a good position relative to the other interested party - almost at the end of the sale of our property (to a FTB) compared to their newly-obtained (but also first time) buyer, have a very large deposit, fast solicitor, mortgage broker who is happy to be contacted to back up our situation and genuine intent to move out and in with family in order to break our end of the chain (I know many people claim this too, but for what it's worth we actually will be - I suppose they don't know we're telling the truth about most of these things!)). It's being insinuated to us that our advanced position doesn't really matter all that much as the sale of the desired house is going to be held up by an issue with the land registry. However, surely it would still be beneficial to have a buyer who will soon be exchanging and completing on their own property compared to having one who has a buyer below them potentially putting pressure on due to the hold up? Not to mention all the other associated hassles which would be removed by going with us and not the newly formed chain - the surveys, securing of a mortgage etc. that our buyer and us have already gone through.

Our initial instinct is to stick to our guns by re-iterating our position and refusing to be pressured into upping our offer. This is mainly because we would really struggle to go much higher anyway and have some suspicions, in part, about this whole scenario in the first place. If the other interested party decides to up their offer by a lot, there isn't much we can do but if they don't increase it by much then perhaps the seller will realise we might be the better option and forfeit a minimal increase. Depends how much weight they place on circumstance vs. offer amount I guess, although the fact they wanted this final offers scenario makes me think they value the latter more?

What I'm really wondering, though, is whether it would be completely silly of us not to increase our offer even by a small amount? To be honest, we feel annoyed we're now suddenly being pressured to be involved in this whole situation when up until yesterday ours was the only proceedable offer at the asking price... feels like the sellers/estate agent are being extremely greedy, especially when the hold up with the land registry problem is most certainly going to cause us to have to pay stamp duty when we *might* have just about scraped through (the seller has no onward chain). We are also concerned that if the seller is trying to squeeze more out of us already or doesn't much value the benefit of our position, that we might be in for more difficulties further down the line.

Are we being too stubborn for our own good? Or should we hold our ground, hoping that our circumstances help us to come out on top but also be prepared to lose out and wait for another property to come up in this location that doesn't involve a bidding war or final offers situation. Has anyone actually refused to enter a bidding war with another person and come out on top?! I know we are probably being very naïve, but this whole scenario has already left a bad taste in our mouths.

May I ask what other people would do?

[Deleted User]

I was talking to a friend today whose partner's situation was similar to yours, in terms of the bidding war. Essentially, she refused to be pressurised into a bidding war with the only other person to make an offer on the property and in doing so, took herself out of the running. Maybe this is a tactic used by EAs on people who have shown genuine and eager interest on a property, so they believe they can squeeze a little more out of them. I suppose it really depends how much you like the property. What is it worth to you? Are you willing to risk it by standing your ground or is it worth playing the game and potentially spending more on it? Only you know. Being a FTB myself, I am slowly starting to realise that EAs may use these kind of strategies to make a property more appealing (people tend to pay more for something that other people want, after all). What are you considering doing?

mooncake89

Deleted_User said:

I was talking to a friend today whose partner's situation was eerily similar to yours. Essentially, she refused to be pressurised into a bidding war with the only other person to make an offer on the property and in doing so, took herself out of the running. Maybe this is a tactic used by EAs on people who have shown genuine and eager interest on a property, so they believe they can squeeze a little more out of them. I suppose it really depends how much you like the property. What is it worth to you? Are you willing to risk it by standing your ground or is it worth playing the game and potentially spending more on it? Only you know. Being a FTB myself, I am slowly starting to realise that EAs may use these kind of strategies to make a property more appealing (people tend to pay more for something that other people want, after all). What are you considering doing?

It definitely feels like there's truth to this being a deliberate tactic to squeeze more money out of people. Otherwise I would have thought the seller would have just gone with us as our circumstances, on paper, beat theirs. Having said that, I suppose I can understand people wanting to get as much money as possible. I suppose that's the thing - you just don't know what's really going on, but have to ultimately assume that it's legit. 

Most friends and family think we should refuse to engage in it all and stand by our original offer. That's what we felt initially - if the seller wants to accept a higher offer from the other people then good luck to them and I hope they avoid attempted gazunders later on down the line to bring the price back down, especially after a potential under valuation! Part of me wonders why the other bidders didn't go higher originally, upon learning of our offer that was already on the table and knowing that they were in a worse position. I do have my suspicions that the sellers might prefer us because of this but be trying their luck anyway.

On the other hand, the other bidders must know that because they're in a worse position they have no choice but to up their desirability by offering more money. And if that's an option for them, it'd be easy for them to outbid us because we're not in a position to go up by anything but a small amount. So I'm really in two minds. To add to the problem, a lot of our deposit is being gifted to us by a parent, so it doesn't entirely feel as though it's fair for me to upping our offer even more (hence costing said parent more money!).

I suppose I really want the property but I also really don't want to be involved in these games and we're already feeling very wary of this particular seller now. Also don't like the feeling of being pitted against some other poor souls who are probably having the same dilemma as us!

NameUnavailable

I very much doubt that the EA is making anything up, but they've suggested a way for the vendor to decide (remember it's the vendor who has refused your offer so far, not the EA).

The other party might not offer as much as you, or might not offer at all, who knows?

You could call their bluff if that's what you think it is by withdrawing your offer on the basis you don't want a bidding war and see what happens next.

Or, offer a bit more if you want to/can - you still need the mortgage valuation to come back ok and the survey to come back without unexpected works (which are both potential renegotiating points).

So, how badly do you want this particular property?

[Deleted User]

I suppose that's the thing - you just don't know what's really going on, but have to ultimately assume that it's legit. 
That's it in a nutshell. We, as buyers, don't have visibility of what's really going on, so we have to accept the EA's version of events to some extent. Unfortunately, this puts them in a position to be able to use these tactics. Or it could be completely legit! The whole thing is very vague. 

Most friends and family think we should refuse to engage in it all and stand by our original offer.
Have to admit, this is what I felt. It's also similar to the situation I'm in (likely going to best offers, therefore I have to decide whether to remain with my original figure or increase it to be in with more of a chance). It's difficult to know for sure so I suppose it's weighing up how much it's worth to you and whether it is viable to throw more money at it. 

To add to the problem, a lot of our deposit is being gifted to us by a parent, so it doesn't entirely feel as though it's fair for me to upping our offer even more (hence costing said parent more money!)
Totally appreciate this, and maybe this is pointing towards your answer in a way. 

I suppose I really want the property but I also really don't want to be involved in these games and we're already feeling very wary of this particular seller now. Also don't like the feeling of being pitted against some other poor souls who are probably having the same dilemma as us!
It does seem unfair but I suppose it's the nature of the beast. The difficult thing is settling on a figure that you're comfortable with and will not result in 'buyer's remorse' if you don't happen to get the property. Maybe strip away the circumstances, the EA and seller's behaviour and determine how much you are prepared to pay for the house?

mooncake89

NameUnavailable said:

You could call their bluff if that's what you think it is by withdrawing your offer on the basis you don't want a bidding war and see what happens next.

Or, offer a bit more if you want to/can - you still need the mortgage valuation to come back ok and the survey to come back without unexpected works (which are both potential renegotiating points).

So, how badly do you want this particular property?

This did cross our minds, but the thought of the EA coming back and just saying "Ok, in that case it's gone to the other bidder. Good luck with everything!" does fill us with dread, so don't think we're brave enough to risk it. Ideally, another house would come up which we could pursue and then it wouldn't feel like we have all our eggs in one basket. But it hasn't yet and I think it's the thought of it potentially taking a long time, if it ever even does, for a comparable property to be listed, that's making me worry about making a mistake with this. On the other hand, one might come up next week that doesn't end up costing us so much  I have such trouble trying to compare what is in front of us with what doesn't yet exist, but might do.

Regarding the valuation and survey, true, perhaps we could renegotiate if it came back that we were hugely overpaying. I could be wrong, of course, but I get the impression that the sellers would just refuse any attempt though as they seem so fixated on price at the moment and not on either of our circumstances.

I think we'll just have to sleep on it (well, try to) and see how we feel in the morning.

mooncake89

Deleted_User said:

I suppose that's the thing - you just don't know what's really going on, but have to ultimately assume that it's legit. 
That's it in a nutshell. We, as buyers, don't have visibility of what's really going on, so we have to accept the EA's version of events to some extent. Unfortunately, this puts them in a position to be able to use these tactics. Or it could be completely legit! The whole thing is very vague. 

Most friends and family think we should refuse to engage in it all and stand by our original offer.
Have to admit, this is what I felt. It's also similar to the situation I'm in (likely going to best offers, therefore I have to decide whether to remain with my original figure or increase it to be in with more of a chance). It's difficult to know for sure so I suppose it's weighing up how much it's worth to you and whether it is viable to throw more money at it. 

To add to the problem, a lot of our deposit is being gifted to us by a parent, so it doesn't entirely feel as though it's fair for me to upping our offer even more (hence costing said parent more money!)
Totally appreciate this, and maybe this is pointing towards your answer in a way. 

I suppose I really want the property but I also really don't want to be involved in these games and we're already feeling very wary of this particular seller now. Also don't like the feeling of being pitted against some other poor souls who are probably having the same dilemma as us!
It does seem unfair but I suppose it's the nature of the beast. The difficult thing is settling on a figure that you're comfortable with and will not result in 'buyer's remorse' if you don't happen to get the property. Maybe strip away the circumstances, the EA and seller's behaviour and determine how much you are prepared to pay for the house?

It's awful isn't it! I'm even more conscious now of trying to make the right decision because this whole thing has been so stressful so far (and we haven't even had an offer accepted on anything yet!) I can't face the thought of needing to move again any time soon. I wish you the best of luck with your own dilemma. Everyone does always say that it will all work out in the end, that there's always another house etc. etc., but as you probably know, it never feels like it at the time. I think we'll have to believe that it will all come good somehow!

[Deleted User]

mooncake89 said

It's awful isn't it! I'm even more conscious now of trying to make the right decision because this whole thing has been so stressful so far (and we haven't even had an offer accepted on anything yet!) I can't face the thought of needing to move again any time soon. I wish you the best of luck with your own dilemma. Everyone does always say that it will all work out in the end, that there's always another house etc. etc., but as you probably know, it never feels like it at the time. I think we'll have to believe that it will all come good somehow!

I think part of this process is realising that there is no right decision - whatever you decide to do is going to be a risk, a stab in the dark based on the information you have. It's difficult though, when you can envisage yourself living somewhere and are attached to it before getting the keys. It's definitely one of these situations where we have limited control. For the sake of my sanity, I now have the attitude that if I don't get the house, it wasn't meant for me. As much as I love it, it seems very much out of my hands and trying to control / overthink it just adds to the frustration! It will work out in the end, but whether or not that means you get that particular house is still unknown! I really wish you well and hope you'll post an update! 

Thrugelmir

 By jumping straight in at asking price you've shown your hand and likewise the desire to buy the property. You don't have to increase you bid. Don't let your heart rule your head. View the property again. You'll notice a lot more the second time. Take a measured approach. 

You've no control over the other parties actions. 

Octothorpe

I'd personally offer a token extra amount, even if just a few hundred, and reiterate my position and that you believe what you've offered is a fair price so won't be looking at lowering it after survey etc.

Irishpearce26

This usually happens when 2 or more bidders have met the asking price in their offers and so the seller wants to maximise the best return on their property. You should also consider that the highest bid doesn't always win, it depends on how proceedable the buyer is.

When we sold our house last month we went to best and final as both offered the same amount. The winning bid was only £500 more but they were also in a more proceedable position. If it was the other way round i would have accepted the lower offer.

Bid what you can afford, even if its £250/500 more than your last offer. I've seen on other threads that putting a bid in like £xxx,250 always helps rather than a rounded figure.