Electronic Banking

pinkpot

Please can anyone help this OAP to understand electronic online banking?  I recently switched to an 'ethical' bank (The Co-Operative Bank) which has proved to be a nightmare over making an International Payment to an EU country in euros.  22nd March tried to make an online payment but the website is not clear about the input of data so after three attempts were rejected drove into the City Centre open branch and gave all the printed details (the IBAN and BIC) which took an hour to resolve.  Returning home received a phone call from the banks International Payment to seek clarification of the data where I spelt each required character phonetically.  Told (getting mixed messages) takes 3-5 days to effect a transfer.  This is weird as with the old bank a transfer would be executed with a couple of hours  Questioned the new bank time scale being told they use a SEPA being a 'Swift' Payment.  Today (29th March) the transfer has still not been received by the recipient.  Told I must wait 10 working days before a trace can commence (I would be charged £20) - even more weird on Friday 26th received in my account a 'foreign' credit of £148.60p (having debited £281.58 for 315€) questioning if this was part refund of the international payment - seems to be the bank tells me.- even though I do not recognise this credit.
Having no confidence in this bank - I opened a new account with my old bank transferring funds from the new bank and using exactly the same IBAN and BIC this morning made an International Payment which is now in the recipients bank within one hour. 
Please help me understand the differences where the old account with the Halifax, what was essentially a Building Society, with the new bank being an established bank so why the differences of quality of service and why does the new bank customer service is so indifferent?  The other problem with the C0-Op is mixed messages with no continuity with queries answered by different advisors. 

Armorica

Sounds like the problem is Co-op not you!
Halifax is in some ways more bank like than Co-op despite its building society history - especially post merger with Bank of Scotland and then Lloyds.
Anyways, a few things:
- SWIFT and SEPA are not the same
- The UK leaving the EU has changed quite a few things (in some cases costs and timescales)
- If you regularly want to make international payments, there are firms that will handle it better than Co-op. Co-op is inherently very domestic with limited experience and scale of handling international payments. Halifax is part of a much larger banking group - and while Lloyds isn't international like HSBC...it does have more scale. You'll still get inconsistent answers from advisors - but it does have scale.
- The foreign credit seems really odd - keep chasing them on that! It's possible that fees have been deducted along the way - but the reduction implied in your post is much higher than I'd expect.

colsten

If you had asked before you sent the money, people would have recommended you use Starling Bank or Wise to transfer money to the EU. Never use one of the High Street banks for money transfers, as you get rotten exchange rates, and with some, as you are experiencing now, rotten service.

[Deleted User]

SEPA payments are free from Co-op Bank and shouldn't have been chargeable by the recipient (Euro within the EEA) . The exchange rate might have not been the best but debatable if a big issue if small, one off payment.

As for Halifax, all the Lloyds brands will use a single system for payments and they are the largest retail bank in the UK.

pinkpot

Am really grateful for the advice given (we learn from our mistakes!) and have now sent the following :  "...asking you stop sending me mixed massages.  Previously told a trace could not be instigated until I had waited ten working days.  It would therefore be appreciated if I was treated, not as an idiot, but with a degree of intelligence.  The £148.70 credited to my account does not equate to the 315 Euro transfer of £281.58p debited to my account so even if 35 Euro has been charge the refund difference is entirely wrong.  The figure quoted in your response simply do not add up.  With conflicting instructions throughout this hassle does not endear me at all but, no worries, as I have learnt not to use this account in future for another international payment but use the alternative method.  Hopefully you will now resolve this issue with factual information.  Misinformation, as given before I made the switch, can only serve to cause confusion..."

pinkpot

As an update with the Co-Op is a crazy situation of no continuity from advisors so each different one askes the same question to be repeated to confirm the IBAN and BIC data - one askes me to confirm whether to commence trace of the international payment which I replied affirmative.  The next response from a different advisor now tells me I have to wait ten working days so a trace cannot commence until 7th April even though the payment was made on 22nd March so ten working days is Friday 2nd April (Not Easter in Eastern Europe being Orthodox) but this is what I do not understand about electron banking.  If I use a debit card in a retail outlet or shop online the amount paid is immediately debited to my account.  Co-Op have screwed up on this international payment so it their responsibility to reimburse to my account what I have paid for inaction of gross inefficiency.  Surely?  Another question is what would be the point of referring this matter to the Financial Ombudsmen for investigation where it is found they are not fit for purpose?

molerat

10 working days is 7th April, 2nd & 5th April are not working days, not including the day of payment which is generally considered day 0.

p00hsticks

pinkpot said:

  If I use a debit card in a retail outlet or shop online the amount paid is immediately debited to my account. 

Correction - if you use a debit card in a retail outlet or shop online the amount paid MAY be immediately debited from your account - however, alternatively

a) the amount won't be immediately debited but may be reflected in your available balance (if your bank works that way and the retailer requested an authorisation)

or

b) there will be no indication of the pending transation until the retailer / their merchant acquirer process the transation - which could be hours, days, weeks or even months later.

eskbanker

pinkpot said:

If I use a debit card in a retail outlet or shop online the amount paid is immediately debited to my account.

That's not a realistic analogy for a multi-currency international funds transfer.

pinkpot said:

Co-Op have screwed up on this international payment so it their responsibility to reimburse to my account what I have paid for inaction of gross inefficiency.  Surely?

You obviously need to give them time to identify and resolve the issue, but if they accept that they're at fault then it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect to be returned to the position you were in before the failed transfer.  Bandying around terms like "inaction of gross inefficiency" may make you feel better when composing stroppy messages to them but probably best to stick to facts....

pinkpot said:

Another question is what would be the point of referring this matter to the Financial Ombudsmen for investigation where it is found they are not fit for purpose?

Who would be finding them 'not fit for purpose'?  If you're unhappy with Co-Op's resolution of the issue then you have the option of invoking their formal complaint procedure, and if that doesn't address it to your satisfaction either then you can escalate to FOS.  Whether there's any point in doing so is entirely up to you - under FOS's remit, they'll only investigate whether Co-Op have handled your complaint appropriately but they have no power to review Co-Op's business practices or to instruct them to change them if that's what you'd be hoping for.

pinkpot said:

Electronic Banking

Please can anyone help this OAP to understand electronic online banking?

pinkpot said:

this is what I do not understand about electron banking

Unless I've misunderstood, you initiated a payment in branch, so the problems you've experienced since then are nothing to do with 'electronic online banking' as such, even though deficiencies in Co-Op's online facility seem to have been what drove you to using in-branch services in the first place?

Armorica

I don't think the tone of your email to Co-op will have helped - you should try to remain neutral and factual.

It's not entirely clear Co-op have screwed up completely (although their comms is confusing). Did you ask / how long did they tell you it would take for the payment to arrive? They aren't going to reimburse you for funds that may still be in the course of getting to the beneficiary. Tracing a payment that is still in flight just gets confusing.

I don't understand your reference to the FOS?

And account-based/interbank payments don't work the same as card payments. Trying to compare one with the other isn't relevant here.