Hired van, PCN issued for 'commercial vehicles not allowed’ Claim Form Received

monahansam

Hi All,
Thanks for all of the available information, it has saved me countless times already. 
I have received my CCJ claim form and I am looking for advice on what approach to take with my defence. 
Details of my case are as follows;

• I  hired a van for 1 calendar day (15/03/2019 - 16/03/2019), in my name and I was the sole driver. I was using the van to move from my old flat where the PCN was issued to a new flat and had parked in the visitor space overnight before returning the van the next day
• The PCN was issued (16/03/2019) for breaching the T&C 'parking is permitted for non-commercial vehicles' displayed on the parking signs around the car park
• The hired van was parked in a visitor bay with the correct permit at my current address at the time (rented), the tenancy included 1 space at the rear of the building for resident parking (no permits, just allocated spaces) and use of visitor spaces at the front of the building (with a permit) for 24 hours and with no return within 48 hours
• SAR request has been sent and received
• AOS submitted
• PCN issued by 'One Parking Solution LTD'
• Solicitors are DCBL (Direct Collection Bailiffs Limited)

Should my approach to my defence be based around the right I have to use the visitor space through renting the flat or the illegible signage and the vague term 'commercial vehicle'?
I don't understand how they can define a vehicle as commercial. Although the vehicle is generating money for the hire company it wasn't being used for commercial gain by me the driver.
Thanks in advance

Half_way

What rights doe the tenancy agreement grant with regards to parking / use of visitor bays etc  in most cases these will trump any signs posted / put up by a parking company, likewise if you have/had superior rights to use the spaces as conferred by your tenancy agreement then a third party ( such as a parking  company ) can not come and take these away, and gain in most cases the displaying of a permit is as a courtesy only and not as an obligation.

If the tenancy/lase/freehold says nothing about comercial vehicles then that overrides any poxy signs

Fruitcake

Either you have received a CCJ, or you have received a court claim, or you have received something else. Please be precise and don't make things up.
If you have received a CCJ (the J stands for Judgment) then you have been taken to court, lost, and not paid the money to the claimant as required by the court in the requisite time.

If you have received a LBC or LoC then it will say so in the heading.

If you have received a claim from the courts clearing house in Manchester then you will have received a MCOL.

However, you then go on to say that the solicitors are Direct Collections for Bailiffs Limited. That is a letter from a powerless debt collector, so none of what I have said above applies.
The fourth post of the NEWBIES tells you why it is safe to ignore debt collectors.
The fifth post of the NEWBIES explains common parking acronyms and abbreviations.

That does not tie in with you saying you have done the AoS, which means you have received something from a different solicitor such as Direct Collections for Bailiffs Legal, and then received the claim itself via MCOL.

Please therefore clarify what you have received, what happened when you complained to the landowner and MA, and what your lease/AST says about parking, parking permits, parking scammers, PCNs, paying parking scammers, and court claims.
What it doesn't say is equally important.

Your lease/AST has primacy of contract over anything an unregulated parking scammer who is not a party to your contract to live there has to say.

Please also tell us if you appealed, and if so, whether you did so as driver or hirer/lessee, and whether you made a PoPLA appeal or not.

If you have received a real court claim, please tell us the issue date and the date you did the AoS.

Umkomaas

• The PCN was issued (16/03/2019) for breaching the T&C 'parking is permitted for non-commercial vehicles' displayed on the parking signs around the car park

I think they might have difficulty nailing things down with that description. 

I have received my CCJ claim form and I am looking for advice on what approach to take with my defence. 

CCJ comes at the end of the whole process - it is the Judgment. It may sound pedantic, but now you're in the legal process, you must absolutely use the correct terminology. 

What is the Date of Issue shown on the N1 court claim form? 

• Solicitors are DCBL (Direct Collection Bailiffs Limited)

Again, pedantically, I don't think it's them. Please check and confirm. 

I am looking for advice on what approach to take with my defence. 

You do know that there is one all but written for you (you just need to adjust paras 2 and 3 (a 30-minute job) - one of the 5 'Announcements' pinned to the top of the forum thread list. There is also the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, second post, which you will need to familiarise yourself with as it takes you through the entire court process - start to finish. Again a pinned 'Announcement'

monahansam

Hi all, thank you for your replies, really appreciated. 
Apologies for my inaccuracies, I understand what you are saying in regards to being precise and I will be more accurate going forward. 

Half_way said:

What rights doe the tenancy agreement grant with regards to parking / use of visitor bays etc  in most cases these will trump any signs posted / put up by a parking company, likewise if you have/had superior rights to use the spaces as conferred by your tenancy agreement then a third party ( such as a parking  company ) can not come and take these away, and gain in most cases the displaying of a permit is as a courtesy only and not as an obligation.

If the tenancy/lase/freehold says nothing about comercial vehicles then that overrides any poxy signs

My tenancy agreement doesn't include any information in regards to parking at the flats so I am in the process of getting hold of the leasehold or freehold which should have that information. I should be able to get this on Monday.

Fruitcake said:

Either you have received a CCJ, or you have received a court claim, or you have received something else. Please be precise and don't make things up.
If you have received a CCJ (the J stands for Judgment) then you have been taken to court, lost, and not paid the money to the claimant as required by the court in the requisite time.

If you have received a LBC or LoC then it will say so in the heading.

If you have received a claim from the courts clearing house in Manchester then you will have received a MCOL.

However, you then go on to say that the solicitors are Direct Collections for Bailiffs Limited. That is a letter from a powerless debt collector, so none of what I have said above applies.
The fourth post of the NEWBIES tells you why it is safe to ignore debt collectors.
The fifth post of the NEWBIES explains common parking acronyms and abbreviations.

That does not tie in with you saying you have done the AoS, which means you have received something from a different solicitor such as Direct Collections for Bailiffs Legal, and then received the claim itself via MCOL.

Please therefore clarify what you have received, what happened when you complained to the landowner and MA, and what your lease/AST says about parking, parking permits, parking scammers, PCNs, paying parking scammers, and court claims.
What it doesn't say is equally important.

Your lease/AST has primacy of contract over anything an unregulated parking scammer who is not a party to your contract to live there has to say.

Please also tell us if you appealed, and if so, whether you did so as driver or hirer/lessee, and whether you made a PoPLA appeal or not.

If you have received a real court claim, please tell us the issue date and the date you did the AoS.

Apologies again for my terminology, I have received a County Court Claim Form. This is from the County Court Business Centre, Northampton. 
Please ignore my reference to Direct Collections for Bailiffs Limited, those were earlier letters. 
If the solicitor being used is listed under the heading 'Address for sending documents and payments (if different)' then its is DCB Legal LTD. If not, I will have to find this out. 

• After receiving the court claim, issue date 08/03/2021, I submitted the AOS on 21/03/2021 and it was received 22/03/2021
• I did not complain to the managing agent of the block on this occasion as I have previously received a ticket at this address, sent a email with help from the newbies thread to the managing agent and received a reply stating they weren't able to help 
• My tenancy agreement is from a standard template and does not include any specific information in regards to parking
• I am currently trying to get hold of either the leasehold or freehold which should have information regarding the parking
• I did appeal the PCN on 23/04/2019 with a template from the newbies thread stating I was the 'hirer' and 'keeper' but not the driver
• I did not make a PoPLA appeal

Umkomaas said:

• The PCN was issued (16/03/2019) for breaching the T&C 'parking is permitted for non-commercial vehicles' displayed on the parking signs around the car park

I think they might have difficulty nailing things down with that description. 

I have received my CCJ claim form and I am looking for advice on what approach to take with my defence. 

CCJ comes at the end of the whole process - it is the Judgment. It may sound pedantic, but now you're in the legal process, you must absolutely use the correct terminology. 

What is the Date of Issue shown on the N1 court claim form? 

• Solicitors are DCBL (Direct Collection Bailiffs Limited)

Again, pedantically, I don't think it's them. Please check and confirm. 

I am looking for advice on what approach to take with my defence. 

You do know that there is one all but written for you (you just need to adjust paras 2 and 3 (a 30-minute job) - one of the 5 'Announcements' pinned to the top of the forum thread list. There is also the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, second post, which you will need to familiarise yourself with as it takes you through the entire court process - start to finish. Again a pinned 'Announcement'

• I think 'non-commercial vehicles' is very vague. This isn't something listed on a V5 for example so how can you know for sure 
• Not a CCJ, apologies. Date of issue on N1 form is 08/03/2021, AOS submitted 21/03/2021 and received 22/03/2021
• I have already started to draft my defence but I wanted to know if I should only reference poor illegible signage or also the confusion around the term 'commercial vehicle'
• I have read through the newbies thread but I will go over it all again to familiarise myself with the next steps

KeithP

monahansam said:

• After receiving the court claim, issue date 08/03/2021, I submitted the AOS on 21/03/2021 and it was received 22/03/2021

With a Claim Issue Date of 8th March, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 12th April 2021 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Umkomaas

• I have already started to draft my defence but I wanted to know if I should only reference poor illegible signage or also the confusion around the term 'commercial vehicle'

Most definitely - both. 

Please confirm you are using the defence template from the standalone Announcement near the top of the forum thread list, otherwise you're wasting energy copying older examples, and the forum is likely to tell you to start again. There are only two paragraphs that require any real work for you to complete. 

Fruitcake

If the NTH was not PoFA complaint, then say so, quoting the relevant parts of the PoFA with which the scammer's have failed to comply.

The hire company only have the details of the hirer/lessee. They do not know the identity of the driver because they were not a witness to the alleged event.

D_P_Dance

What does your lease/AST say about parking commercial vehicles in the car park?   if is is against the T&C  you may struggle if this goes to court.  

Le_Kirk

D_P_Dance said:

What does your lease/AST say about parking commercial vehicles in the car park?   if is is against the T&C  you may struggle if this goes to court.  

monahansam said:

My tenancy agreement is from a standard template and does not include any specific information in regards to parking
I am currently trying to get hold of either the leasehold or freehold which should have information regarding the parking

The OP has already said they doesn't have a lease (assuming they have an AST) and is trying to get hold of the leasehold(er) or freehold(er)

monahansam

KeithP said:

monahansam said:

• After receiving the court claim, issue date 08/03/2021, I submitted the AOS on 21/03/2021 and it was received 22/03/2021

With a Claim Issue Date of 8th March, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 12th April 2021 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Will do, thanks!

Umkomaas said:

• I have already started to draft my defence but I wanted to know if I should only reference poor illegible signage or also the confusion around the term 'commercial vehicle'

Most definitely - both. 

Please confirm you are using the defence template from the standalone Announcement near the top of the forum thread list, otherwise you're wasting energy copying older examples, and the forum is likely to tell you to start again. There are only two paragraphs that require any real work for you to complete. 

Ok, I will use all of the reasons I have in my defence rather than just one.
I will be using the most up to date template from 2020 and I will make sure at the end to include the most recent statement of truth. I will also email the defence to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk as stated in the suggested template thread.

Fruitcake said:

If the NTH was not PoFA complaint, then say so, quoting the relevant parts of the PoFA with which the scammer's have failed to comply.

The hire company only have the details of the hirer/lessee. They do not know the identity of the driver because they were not a witness to the alleged event.

I will have to look over the NTH for PoFA compliance. I have not admitted to driving just to being the hirer and keeper at the time.

D_P_Dance said:

What does your lease/AST say about parking commercial vehicles in the car park?   if is is against the T&C  you may struggle if this goes to court.  

I am not expecting it to state that in the leasehold or freehold. At the block of flats there is a front car park (visitor bays + permits) and a rear car park (resident parking+allocated bays). Both car parks have the same signs posted around, stating that commercial vehicles are not permitted, but only the visitor car park is patrolled by One Parking Solution. The rear car park had and still has vans parked in it by residents of the block and I cannot see why the leasehold or freehold would exclude residents from parking their own work vehicles at home. 
I also can not understand how one defines 'commercial' for this purpose. Is a commercial vehicle one that is used for business or over a certain weight or exceeding a dimension? A taxi is commercial but how does one know if it doesn't have its council number displayed like many Ubers these days. This isn't defined anywhere that I have come across before.
Furthermore One Parking Solution use a branded Dacia car to carry out their patrols so they would have breached their own terms and conditions when issuing my PCN by parking their 'commercial vehicle' in the visitor parking area. I have confronted one of their patrols before who assured me they had a permit to park in the visitor bay but I can not see how their vehicle isn't being used commercially. 
You can only laugh at how stupid it is