Engine failure weeks after a service

Notamondayfan

Hi all,
I'm after some advice.
On the 21st January, my car went in for a service at a nation wide garage firm for oil change, filters, etc.
6th March the car makes an awful knocking noise from the engine, suspected bottom end failure.
This week, the car has been into the dealership for diagnostic, and they deduced it is a mechanical failure, not electronic or any other issue.
The car has only done roughly 43,000 miles.
The car has done less than 1000 miles since the service.
My issue is is that the car is out of warranty, and unless it's a serious defect, the garage won't do anything.
I seriously suspect the service may have used the wrong oil, causing the engine to fail. On the service receipt, and it simply says Engine Oil 5x. I have phoned the garage, and they can say "it would have been 5w30, ACEAC3", which is the correct oil, but have no proof yet.
So where do I stand? I'm going to see if there are any oil testing companies out there to check the oil.

Anyway, in a real pickle, as the car is still under finance (£5000 left to pay), and it could cost more than that to sort the issues.

Any advice welcome please.
Thanks,
Dean

AdrianC

"Engine oil 5x" will just mean "we've used five litres"

5w30 is a very common viscosity.
ACEA C3 is a very common standard - suitable for DPF-equipped diesels.
Using an oil a little too thick or too thin won't kill the bottom end of an engine in 1,000 miles.
Using a non-DPF-suitable oil won't kill the bottom end at all.

The single most common cause for bottom-end failure is oil starvation, usually due to a lack of oil in the engine...

Did you check the oil level in that 1,000 miles and six and a bit weeks? No signs of the level dropping or being too low?

The oil pressure light was coming on normally at ignition on, then going out at start-up, and not coming on with the engine running?

If you want to prove anything, then just oil testing won't be enough. You would need to get the engine stripped down, the cause of the failure diagnosed, and an expert report produced which you can then use as evidence in a small claim for the cost of replacing or rebuilding the engine. If you win, this cost is part of your claim. If you lose, the cost is on you.

It will not cost anything even close to £5k to replace the engine with a good used one in most cars. What is it?

BOWFER

As said above, engines are surprisingly resilient and the wrong oil won't kill it that quick.
And low oil warning lights have plenty of margin that you'd have to ignore it for a long time for there to be literally no oil.
The cause could be anything, from a blocked oil feed to just normal mechanical failure and the service is only coincidental.
You may have to accept there is no-one to blame here.

ratrace

Highly Unlikely, that the wrong oil was used garages noramlly have the 2 or 3 most common oils in stock and if they do get a car in that needs a diffrent oil such as pd oil then they just get it dropped off from the supplier at same time as the filters, i work on a lot of vw's and have pd oil and non pd oil for the diffrent engines.

What car is it, is it petrol or diesel after 1k miles it highly unlikely to do with the service.

Goudy

Be interesting to know if this car had a belt driven oil pump and the belt or tensioner failed, seems more and more Ford 1.0 Ecoboosts are failing these days.

AdrianC

BOWFER said:

And low oil warning lights have plenty of margin that you'd have to ignore it for a long time for there to be literally no oil.

VERY few engines have a low oil LEVEL light.
Almost every engine has a low oil PRESSURE light.

daveyjp

Basic details of the make of car, age and engine type would be useful.

m0bov

Garage needs to diagnosis it before you can start pointing the finger.

Notamondayfan

AdrianC said:

"Engine oil 5x" will just mean "we've used five litres"

5w30 is a very common viscosity.
ACEA C3 is a very common standard - suitable for DPF-equipped diesels.
Using an oil a little too thick or too thin won't kill the bottom end of an engine in 1,000 miles.
Using a non-DPF-suitable oil won't kill the bottom end at all.

The single most common cause for bottom-end failure is oil starvation, usually due to a lack of oil in the engine...

Did you check the oil level in that 1,000 miles and six and a bit weeks? No signs of the level dropping or being too low?

The oil pressure light was coming on normally at ignition on, then going out at start-up, and not coming on with the engine running?

If you want to prove anything, then just oil testing won't be enough. You would need to get the engine stripped down, the cause of the failure diagnosed, and an expert report produced which you can then use as evidence in a small claim for the cost of replacing or rebuilding the engine. If you win, this cost is part of your claim. If you lose, the cost is on you.

It will not cost anything even close to £5k to replace the engine with a good used one in most cars. What is it?

Thanks for the advice @AdrianC . The oil level was, and still is fine. No warning lights at all. The garage have since performed an oil pressure test, and say it's reading as fine, but this is only when the engine and oil is cold, and they don't want to run the engine for risk of further damage.
As for getting a report done, I'm just at the stage where I need to weigh up which route to go.
The car is a Kia Carens 2016, 1.7 diesel, unfortunately out of warranty due to a !!!!!! up 2 years ago with servicing intervals. 

BOWFER said:

As said above, engines are surprisingly resilient and the wrong oil won't kill it that quick.
And low oil warning lights have plenty of margin that you'd have to ignore it for a long time for there to be literally no oil.
The cause could be anything, from a blocked oil feed to just normal mechanical failure and the service is only coincidental.
You may have to accept there is no-one to blame here.

No warning lights or any indication of problems until the noise.ratrace said:

Highly Unlikely, that the wrong oil was used garages noramlly have the 2 or 3 most common oils in stock and if they do get a car in that needs a diffrent oil such as pd oil then they just get it dropped off from the supplier at same time as the filters, i work on a lot of vw's and have pd oil and non pd oil for the diffrent engines.

What car is it, is it petrol or diesel after 1k miles it highly unlikely to do with the service.

it's a 1.7 diesel kia carens

m0bov said:

Garage needs to diagnosis it before you can start pointing the finger.

sorry if my post came across like I was pointing the finger, just trying to figure out what to do.

AdrianC

Notamondayfan said:

AdrianC said:

Did you check the oil level in that 1,000 miles and six and a bit weeks? No signs of the level dropping or being too low?

The oil pressure light was coming on normally at ignition on, then going out at start-up, and not coming on with the engine running?

Thanks for the advice @AdrianC . The oil level was, and still is fine. No warning lights at all. The garage have since performed an oil pressure test, and say it's reading as fine, but this is only when the engine and oil is cold, and they don't want to run the engine for risk of further damage.

But the oil pressure light was coming on with the ignition, as it should?

I presume they confirmed that there was indeed oil in it... and that it's not badly diluted with diesel following failed DPF regens?

Notamondayfan

AdrianC said:

Notamondayfan said:

AdrianC said:

Did you check the oil level in that 1,000 miles and six and a bit weeks? No signs of the level dropping or being too low?

The oil pressure light was coming on normally at ignition on, then going out at start-up, and not coming on with the engine running?

Thanks for the advice @AdrianC . The oil level was, and still is fine. No warning lights at all. The garage have since performed an oil pressure test, and say it's reading as fine, but this is only when the engine and oil is cold, and they don't want to run the engine for risk of further damage.

But the oil pressure light was coming on with the ignition, as it should?

I presume they confirmed that there was indeed oil in it... and that it's not badly diluted with diesel following failed DPF regens?

yes the usual lights come on with ignition.
yes oil level was fine. I never asked about DPF regens. I presume the car does this passively, as we've never had any warnings / notices that the car is doing one. The oil didn't look dilute. Maybe a touch blacker than I'd expect, but then again it is a diesel.