Family members taking money from parent whilst in care home

Gavin83

elsien said:

The council can’t take people to court for theft. That’s a police/CPS decision. 

If your referring to my post I didn’t suggest they would. As you rightly point out it’s not the councils responsibility to issue criminal proceedings against an individual. However they will take a relative to court to recover any outstanding bills if deprivation has occurred as they are as entitled to issue civil proceedings as anyone else.

I do agree with your original point. As long as the bills are being paid the care home won’t care about a residents finances.

MaiTai

Action on Elder Abuse will discuss your concerns and provide advice 0808 808 8141.
Otherwise it’s one for the Police or Adult Social Service.

Pollycat

Gavin83 said:

elsien said:

The council can’t take people to court for theft. That’s a police/CPS decision. 

If your referring to my post I didn’t suggest they would. As you rightly point out it’s not the councils responsibility to issue criminal proceedings against an individual. However they will take a relative to court to recover any outstanding bills if deprivation has occurred as they are as entitled to issue civil proceedings as anyone else.

I do agree with your original point. As long as the bills are being paid the care home won’t care about a residents finances.

Elsien was referring to a post immediately above hers and below yours that has now been deleted.

macman

Is this a joint account, or two sole accounts?. If sole, they can very easily be stopped from emptying the late husband's account by making the bank aware that he is deceased, and they will freeze the account. Then report to the police. 

justworriedabit

elsien said:

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

Safeguarding to local authority. 

In my experience of care homes, they don’t want to know anything about residents personal finances so are unlikely to do anything about the issue. 

Wrong.  All care home managers and staff should be trained to ID problems and if approached by staff, family etc it is their duty to make the referral or guide the concerned person. The person raising the concern can if they want to approach the council direct.
https://www.scie.org.uk/person-centred-care/older-people-care-homes/safety

I have sat in a care home office under a large poster highlighting financial abuse, talking to a senior staff member about their concerns about a  financial abuse situation which they had done nothing about for 18 months, I have had several care home managers tell me that they don't get involved with money, that's down to the appointee. Even where there isn't an appointee. I am currently working with 3 care home residents who have had no access to any money for over 12 months because various care homes have not flagged up with anyone that there is an issue.

I will repeat that in my experience there can be a discrepancy between what care homes should do, and what they do in practice. 

That does not make you right. If people are not doing their job as per my link posted in the above post, and you are saying you saw them not doing their job, did you do your job and report them?


You were wrong and all staff have a duty of care as per my previous post and link. It is not the residents fault if their are issues as per your post I've highlighted. Most residents are very vulnerable and  everyone, especially staff have a duty of care that concerns are actioned ASAP. If not, those seeing the failings have a duty of care to report these staff.  If no one reports staff like the ones you mention, where does it leave the residents?

They may "tell you" this that and the other but it does not make it right and I think you know that.

It is up to you to "flag up" failings as it is everyone's duty of care. If I noted something like that, I'd call social services and report to them the homes failings, lack of knowledge/training/etc/etc. Only if social services are advised, only then can they investigate and improve things via training/investigating/etc/etc.

FYI, Anyone, yes anyone can raise a concern they note and one does not need to be staff
or otherwise. Several years ago I went to see a friends parent and I was not happy with I was advised by the carer. I took it up with the manager and still not happy with the excuse given. I told my friend and they said "nothing will get done" - I reported my concerns to soc services and demanded action and an update.  It was an easy solution at the end of the day, IE some staff needed reminding of their duties and the manager had to do some online refresher or something.

Sadly, many in care homes have no family/friends/relatives/etc or may have them and they can't visits as they too are frail, live far away etc. Most care home staff are great but with weak management, things easily slide and it is everyone's duty to report (not just take someones word for that they don't do that) and follow through their concerns if they are not addressed or fobbed off.

Sea_Shell

Well I'm not sure the OP's coming back?

Unusual to have so much knowledge of a co-worker's family finances.  Unless they've been bragging?

If and when they do, maybe they'll clarify what/how they know.

In the meantime, I guess this thread may help other people who find themselves in a similar situation.

elsien

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

Safeguarding to local authority. 

In my experience of care homes, they don’t want to know anything about residents personal finances so are unlikely to do anything about the issue. 

Wrong.  All care home managers and staff should be trained to ID problems and if approached by staff, family etc it is their duty to make the referral or guide the concerned person. The person raising the concern can if they want to approach the council direct.
https://www.scie.org.uk/person-centred-care/older-people-care-homes/safety

I have sat in a care home office under a large poster highlighting financial abuse, talking to a senior staff member about their concerns about a  financial abuse situation which they had done nothing about for 18 months, I have had several care home managers tell me that they don't get involved with money, that's down to the appointee. Even where there isn't an appointee. I am currently working with 3 care home residents who have had no access to any money for over 12 months because various care homes have not flagged up with anyone that there is an issue.

I will repeat that in my experience there can be a discrepancy between what care homes should do, and what they do in practice. 

That does not make you right. If people are not doing their job as per my link posted in the above post, and you are saying you saw them not doing their job, did you do your job and report them?


You were wrong and all staff have a duty of care as per my previous post and link. It is not the residents fault if their are issues as per your post I've highlighted. Most residents are very vulnerable and  everyone, especially staff have a duty of care that concerns are actioned ASAP. If not, those seeing the failings have a duty of care to report these staff.  If no one reports staff like the ones you mention, where does it leave the residents?

They may "tell you" this that and the other but it does not make it right and I think you know that.

It is up to you to "flag up" failings as it is everyone's duty of care. If I noted something like that, I'd call social services and report to them the homes failings, lack of knowledge/training/etc/etc. Only if social services are advised, only then can they investigate and improve things via training/investigating/etc/etc.

FYI, Anyone, yes anyone can raise a concern they note and one does not need to be staff
or otherwise. Several years ago I went to see a friends parent and I was not happy with I was advised by the carer. I took it up with the manager and still not happy with the excuse given. I told my friend and they said "nothing will get done" - I reported my concerns to soc services and demanded action and an update.  It was an easy solution at the end of the day, IE some staff needed reminding of their duties and the manager had to do some online refresher or something.

Sadly, many in care homes have no family/friends/relatives/etc or may have them and they can't visits as they too are frail, live far away etc. Most care home staff are great but with weak management, things easily slide and it is everyone's duty to report (not just take someones word for that they don't do that) and follow through their concerns if they are not addressed or fobbed off.

If you could point out to me precisely where I have said that staff do not have a duty of care, then I will accept your view that I wrong.
However given that in none of my posts have I said that staff should not act, nor have I said that they are right not to act,  I'm failing to see which parts of my posts you feel are inaccurate? 

justworriedabit

elsien said:

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

Safeguarding to local authority. 

In my experience of care homes, they don’t want to know anything about residents personal finances so are unlikely to do anything about the issue. 

Wrong.  All care home managers and staff should be trained to ID problems and if approached by staff, family etc it is their duty to make the referral or guide the concerned person. The person raising the concern can if they want to approach the council direct.
https://www.scie.org.uk/person-centred-care/older-people-care-homes/safety

I have sat in a care home office under a large poster highlighting financial abuse, talking to a senior staff member about their concerns about a  financial abuse situation which they had done nothing about for 18 months, I have had several care home managers tell me that they don't get involved with money, that's down to the appointee. Even where there isn't an appointee. I am currently working with 3 care home residents who have had no access to any money for over 12 months because various care homes have not flagged up with anyone that there is an issue.

I will repeat that in my experience there can be a discrepancy between what care homes should do, and what they do in practice. 

That does not make you right. If people are not doing their job as per my link posted in the above post, and you are saying you saw them not doing their job, did you do your job and report them?


You were wrong and all staff have a duty of care as per my previous post and link. It is not the residents fault if their are issues as per your post I've highlighted. Most residents are very vulnerable and  everyone, especially staff have a duty of care that concerns are actioned ASAP. If not, those seeing the failings have a duty of care to report these staff.  If no one reports staff like the ones you mention, where does it leave the residents?

They may "tell you" this that and the other but it does not make it right and I think you know that.

It is up to you to "flag up" failings as it is everyone's duty of care. If I noted something like that, I'd call social services and report to them the homes failings, lack of knowledge/training/etc/etc. Only if social services are advised, only then can they investigate and improve things via training/investigating/etc/etc.

FYI, Anyone, yes anyone can raise a concern they note and one does not need to be staff
or otherwise. Several years ago I went to see a friends parent and I was not happy with I was advised by the carer. I took it up with the manager and still not happy with the excuse given. I told my friend and they said "nothing will get done" - I reported my concerns to soc services and demanded action and an update.  It was an easy solution at the end of the day, IE some staff needed reminding of their duties and the manager had to do some online refresher or something.

Sadly, many in care homes have no family/friends/relatives/etc or may have them and they can't visits as they too are frail, live far away etc. Most care home staff are great but with weak management, things easily slide and it is everyone's duty to report (not just take someones word for that they don't do that) and follow through their concerns if they are not addressed or fobbed off.

If you could point out to me precisely where I have said that staff do not have a duty of care, then I will accept your view that I wrong.
However given that in none of my posts have I said that staff should not act, nor have I said that they are right not to act,  I'm failing to see which parts of my posts you feel are inaccurate? 

Based on your posts , you have not mentioned any action you took and therefore I stand by what I have said.
I have given you a detailed post as above and what everyone, not just paid staff need to do when they notice something they are not happy with.

I have posted in great detail and covered everything and it was not about "discrepancy" but a duty of care by everyone and then reporting ones concerns.
Thanks for the discussion.

elsien

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

justworriedabit said:

elsien said:

Safeguarding to local authority. 

In my experience of care homes, they don’t want to know anything about residents personal finances so are unlikely to do anything about the issue. 

Wrong.  All care home managers and staff should be trained to ID problems and if approached by staff, family etc it is their duty to make the referral or guide the concerned person. The person raising the concern can if they want to approach the council direct.
https://www.scie.org.uk/person-centred-care/older-people-care-homes/safety

I have sat in a care home office under a large poster highlighting financial abuse, talking to a senior staff member about their concerns about a  financial abuse situation which they had done nothing about for 18 months, I have had several care home managers tell me that they don't get involved with money, that's down to the appointee. Even where there isn't an appointee. I am currently working with 3 care home residents who have had no access to any money for over 12 months because various care homes have not flagged up with anyone that there is an issue.

I will repeat that in my experience there can be a discrepancy between what care homes should do, and what they do in practice. 

That does not make you right. If people are not doing their job as per my link posted in the above post, and you are saying you saw them not doing their job, did you do your job and report them?


You were wrong and all staff have a duty of care as per my previous post and link. It is not the residents fault if their are issues as per your post I've highlighted. Most residents are very vulnerable and  everyone, especially staff have a duty of care that concerns are actioned ASAP. If not, those seeing the failings have a duty of care to report these staff.  If no one reports staff like the ones you mention, where does it leave the residents?

They may "tell you" this that and the other but it does not make it right and I think you know that.

It is up to you to "flag up" failings as it is everyone's duty of care. If I noted something like that, I'd call social services and report to them the homes failings, lack of knowledge/training/etc/etc. Only if social services are advised, only then can they investigate and improve things via training/investigating/etc/etc.

FYI, Anyone, yes anyone can raise a concern they note and one does not need to be staff
or otherwise. Several years ago I went to see a friends parent and I was not happy with I was advised by the carer. I took it up with the manager and still not happy with the excuse given. I told my friend and they said "nothing will get done" - I reported my concerns to soc services and demanded action and an update.  It was an easy solution at the end of the day, IE some staff needed reminding of their duties and the manager had to do some online refresher or something.

Sadly, many in care homes have no family/friends/relatives/etc or may have them and they can't visits as they too are frail, live far away etc. Most care home staff are great but with weak management, things easily slide and it is everyone's duty to report (not just take someones word for that they don't do that) and follow through their concerns if they are not addressed or fobbed off.

If you could point out to me precisely where I have said that staff do not have a duty of care, then I will accept your view that I wrong.
However given that in none of my posts have I said that staff should not act, nor have I said that they are right not to act,  I'm failing to see which parts of my posts you feel are inaccurate? 

Based on your posts , you have not mentioned any action you took and therefore I stand by what I have said.
I have given you a detailed post as above and what everyone, not just paid staff need to do when they notice something they are not happy with.

I have posted in great detail and covered everything and it was not about "discrepancy" but a duty of care by everyone and then reporting ones concerns.
Thanks for the discussion.

So guesswork on your part then? 
My posts were not about what I did, which I have no intention of sharing on here, but about the reality as to what care home may or may not raise when it comes to finances.
And on that note, I am out. 

Pollycat

elsien said:

If you could point out to me precisely where I have said that staff do not have a duty of care, then I will accept your view that I wrong.
However given that in none of my posts have I said that staff should not act, nor have I said that they are right not to act,  I'm failing to see which parts of my posts you feel are inaccurate? 

elsien said:

My posts were not about what I did, which I have no intention of sharing on here, but about the reality as to what care home may or may not raise when it comes to finances.
And on that note, I am out. 

Great posts, Elsien.

I understood exactly what you meant.