Used car not as described- dealer refusing to refund

sarabop

Ive recently 8/3 bought a minibus to convert to a van and due to distance and covid I wasn't able to view.  I made several calls with a mechanic friend present and also requested a video in addition to the pictures sent by the dealer.  Specifically two questions asked were 1) Does it have a tachometer, (answer was no) and 2) Is it 3.5 ton or under (answer was yes).
Upon delivery (from Edinburgh to Somerset arriving at 1am)  the vehicle has a bleeping broken tachometer and (I found out a few days ago) also was rated at 4005kgs. 
I contacted the dealer and he tried to put the tacho right but its factory fitted and is expensive (ive tried to remove it and it knocks out the speedo) 
The vehicle weight means I cannot drive it (I don't have grandfather rights so can't go over 3.5ton)  So my insurance is also invalid. 
Based on all of the above I politely asked for a refund. After much discussion the seller said if I returned it he'd give a refund.  I got to Doncaster (4.5 hours in and about half way) and he then refused the refund.  
I returned home and have now asked him to collect the van and issue a refund again.  He really doesn't think the issues are major and is treating it like im making a fuss.
Ive sold my other vehicle to fund this and am now unable to drive the new van and really upset with this man.
 ive written a letter threatening legal action and asking for a refund under both eh 14 day distance selling rules and more importantly the 30 day Consumer Act 2015 'goods not as described and goods not fit for purpose'
As hes in Scotland their small claims court only goes up to 5k - van is 9100£ so I can't use that.  
My question is - Is there anything else I can do before I start forking out for a solicitor? And should I get a solicitor in Scotland ? Confused and miffed!!

AdrianC

If you knew the registration pre-purchase, you could have easily checked the GVW yourself on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

What sort of minibus are we talking about here?
What make/model/how many seats?

Very few 12+ seat minibuses are not over 3.5t , simply because 12 people can very easily weigh over a ton on their own, and 3.5t vans rarely have that much payload, especially when insulated and trimmed...

Anything used commercially that's 3.5t+ or with 9 or more passenger seats MUST by law have a tachograph fitted. The bleeping is probably because you haven't got your driver card in it.
A tachometer is a rev counter.

When was it delivered? Your big issue here is going to be the time since purchase - within 14 days of delivery, you can reject under the distance selling regulations for no reason at all. I don't see that you have a reason for rejection under CRA - there is no fault with the goods, especially since you've made an abortive attempt to remove the tachograph yourself. Also - you say you bought to convert to a van... for business use? If so, CRA does not apply.

Any contested rejection requires you to return the goods then take then launch proceedings against the vendor for the money. It's not the vendor's fault that the Scottish rules mean it doesn't fall within a small claim. The defendant's location is what determines jurisdiction.

Again, it's not the vendor's fault that you do not have a suitable driving licence, nor that you didn't bother to look up the weight before purchase. You simply failed to do reasonable due diligence, and that's not something that consumer rights are there to protect you from. Yes, you say he gave you faulty information... but do you have that in writing?

sarabop

Thanks for taking the time to reply, perhaps I wasn't as succinct as I thought. See my comments below.

If you knew the registration pre-purchase, you could have easily checked the GVW yourself on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

The weight isn't listed on any documents nor at the DVLA - only on the metal plate under the bonnet. They confirmed they have no weight.

What sort of minibus are we talking about here? 14 seat
What make/model/how many seats?Fiat Ducato

Very few 12+ seat minibuses are not over 3.5t this is why I asked the seller. , simply because 12 people can very easily weigh over a ton on their own, and 3.5t vans rarely have that much payload, especially when insulated and trimmed...

Anything used commercially that's 3.5t+ or with 9 or more passenger seats MUST by law have a tachograph fitted. The bleeping is probably because you haven't got your driver card in it. Card slot is blocked, I was told it didn't have a tacho so this wasn't an issue. I have a witness to this.
A tachometer is a rev counter. I have no experience of tachos, I wasn't intending on having anything to do with one on purchasing the van. It was a surprise - he lied 

When was it delivered? 10/3
Your big issue here is going to be the time since purchase - within 14 days of delivery, you can reject under the distance selling regulations for no reason at all.Tried that but he refused it
 I don't see that you have a reason for rejection under CRA - there is no fault with the goods, especially since you've made an abortive attempt to remove the tachograph yourself this was with his instruction. Also - you say you bought to convert to a van... for business use no for personal use ? If so, CRA does not apply.
Its rejection is under mis selling, not as described, he described it as 3.5 ton and also no tacho this isn't the case.

Any contested rejection requires you to return the goods then take then launch proceedings against the vendor for the money. I cannot return the goods as I can't drive it. I did try to return it before I knew the weight, the seller rejected my attempt.
Again, it's not the vendor's fault that you do not have a suitable driving licence, nor that you didn't bother to look up the weight before purchase. The weight wasn't available to me to find. You simply failed to do reasonable due diligence, and that's not something that consumer rights are there to protect you from. Yes, you say he gave you faulty information... but do you have that in writing? Not have a witness to him stating this on a phone call. 

AdrianC

sarabop said:

If you knew the registration pre-purchase, you could have easily checked the GVW yourself on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

The weight isn't listed on any documents nor at the DVLA - only on the metal plate under the bonnet. They confirmed they have no weight.

Nothing under "Revenue Weight"?

What sort of minibus are we talking about here?

14 seat

What make/model/how many seats?

Fiat Ducato

I think all the factory X250 14-seaters are L3 Maxi, 4005kg.
Black arches on an L3 say at a glance that it's more than 3500kg... (L4s are harder to tell apart at a glance, because even 3500kg L4s are on the Maxi chassis with the tupperware.)

And, of course, 3500kg+ means factory-fitted tachograph.

When was it delivered?

10/3

Your big issue here is going to be the time since purchase - within 14 days of delivery, you can reject under the distance selling regulations for no reason at all.

Tried that but he refused it

16 days ago now. You should have pushed within the 14 days.

Any contested rejection requires you to return the goods then take then launch proceedings against the vendor for the money.

I cannot return the goods as I can't drive it.

It could have been delivered... Somebody else could have driven it.

Yes, you say he gave you faulty information... but do you have that in writing?

Not have a witness to him stating this on a phone call.

A less-than-independent witness, I presume?

Your options now are to sell it again, get it downplated to 3500kg, or to take your C1/D1 test. If C1, you'll have to get the seats out before you can drive it.

Many motorhome and commercial specialists will downplate it cheaply - it's purely a paperwork thing. Obvs, that'll restrict your maximum weight...

Herzlos

Do you have solid, court provable evidence that the dealer said was definitely under 3500kg and didn't have a tacho?

Being that the specification for the vehicle has the 4005kg detailed you've got an uphill battle otherwise, and your best chance at getting the dealer to take it back was to reject the delivery but that's done now.

If so, then you can try to have it returned to the dealer and file court action but expect it to drag on and on and cost you a fortune even if you win. Given it's a 400+ mile trip you'd need to pay someone else to drive the van for it's probably not worth it on that grounds alone.

As Adrian said, you're best chalking it up to experience and either selling it on (people are going mad for camper van conversion vehicles at the moment), taking the C1 test to be allowed to drive it or get the weight changed.

If it's an otherwise good van I'd probably go down the test route as you'll have a lot more internal space for a camper.

sarabop

Thanks for the more constructive reply Herzlos.
I have evidence in the form of a witness who was actually the person who asked the questions during the process of the sale. 
I also have evidence he agreed a refund (admission then?) before then changing his mind.
I laso have evidence of him trying to get the tacho removed for me (admission again?)
I realise I can sell the van but im also feeling its a terrible injustice that this person can lie and cheat his way to a sale and continue to do so without and recourse. 

AdrianC

Just get the thing downplated, and move on with life.

As soon as "terrible injustice" gets aired, this is out of all proportion.

sarabop

Wow are you the sellers brother Adrian? 

AdrianC

No, just a realist.

You are outside the 14 day window for DSR, even though the issue could have been discovered before it was even unloaded from the transporter.
You have no tangible evidence of your claims.
There are no CRA-worthy grounds for refund.
This was eminently predictable with a little pre-purchase research.

The simplest way out of this situation is to get it downplated to 3500kg.
You can then drive it perfectly legally on your post-97 B1, once the seats are removed.

sarabop

it wasn't on a transporter, it arrived at 1am with an exhausted driver. 
I tried to return it within the window and he rejected it 
I have messages of evidence and a witness
I did the research by assuming the seller told the truth

Goudy

sarabop said:

I did the research by assuming the seller told the truth

Fatal mistake!

As already mentioned, get it downplated, someone like SV Tech http://www.svtech.co.uk/ should be able to help you.

I believe it's mainly a paper exercise with DVLA these days, you used to have to mod the suspension bump stops in the past but they binned that idea a while ago.

I'm sure you can buy a Tacho Emulator (a Tachoemu) for the Ducato but I seem to think it won't budge the speed limiter, that needs the ECU reprogramming, not an impossible task for the right person, plenty of remappers do it everyday.

You could just try selling it on and starting with another van, you've probably opened up it's market already by shifting it from Scotland.