Faulty appliance rights when apparently buying through trade

nicola8525

I recently ordered a new kitchen from Howdens including integrated appliances.  As Howdens are a a 'trade only' supplier, the order was placed under the joiners company name although he has had no involvement with howdens - I have dealt with them directly from ordering to kitchen design and dealing with any problems.  I paid the joiner for supplying and fitting the kitchen.

The kitchen was installed last week and from first use the integrated tumble dryer is leaking condensation inside the cabinet.  

I called howdens to report the problem and they sent an engineer out.  The engineer is baffled by the issue but is in agreement that it should not produce the condensation.  

I have asked Howdens if I can return the tumble dryer and, as it's within 30 days of purchase, I've requested a full refund which I believe to be my rights under the consumer rights act.  However, Howdens have said that as the tumble dryer was purchased through 'trade' these rights do not apply.  

As I technically purchased the appliance from the joiner, I think I could request he provides me with a refund but he understandably doesn't want to do that if Howdens won't refund him and he gets lumbered with a faulty machine.   

I'm currently waiting for howdens to get back to me with their proposed solution however I don't think they are open to a refund.  

Something doesn't seem right but I don't really know where I stand.  

Can anyone advise on my rights?

  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

nicola8525 said:

I paid the joiner for supplying and fitting the kitchen.

  

As far as I can see the rights lie with the joiner, you can reject if the engineer confirmed a fault.

The fact you spoke to Howdens about what you wanted, etc shouldn't affect this. 

Any issues the joiner has with their supplier doesn't affect your rights. 

CardinalWolsey

It's issues like this which is why the vast majority of trades don't do this; it's akin to taking your own parts in to a garage and asking them to fit them - they won't.
Unfortunately for the joiner, your rights lie with him - as a consumer.

Manxman_in_exile

I thought that this sort of thing had been covered a couple of months ago?  I thought the advice had been that so long as the purchaser was a bona fide "consumer" then consumer rights applied to "trade only" outlets too.

I suppose the problem here from the OP's point of view is that although they may have dealt with Howden's themselves, they paid via their fitter so he was Howden's customer, not the OP.

(I have a lot of sympathy for the fitter if Howden's was not a supplier he would not have used but for the OP's choice.  The tumble drier still needs to comply with the old SOGA requirements as far as the fitter is concerned doesn't it?  Like fit for purpose?)

Manxman_in_exile

CardinalWolsey said:

It's issues like this which is why the vast majority of trades don't do this; it's akin to taking your own parts in to a garage and asking them to fit them - they won't.
Unfortunately for the joiner, your rights lie with him - as a consumer.

That's what I was thinking.

May serve as a lesson for the fitter.

MattMattMattUK

Manxman_in_exile said:

I thought that this sort of thing had been covered a couple of months ago?  I thought the advice had been that so long as the purchaser was a bona fide "consumer" then consumer rights applied to "trade only" outlets too.

The issue is usually how the trade is conducted, most of the time the invoice from Howden's is in the name of the fitter and the end user pays Howden's directly, but technically in breach of their account terms and conditions. Most of the tradespeople that do it do so avoid hitting the VAT threshold, even though technically as it is going through their account it counts as their trade. 

nicola8525

CardinalWolsey said:

It's issues like this which is why the vast majority of trades don't do this; it's akin to taking your own parts in to a garage and asking them to fit them - they won't.
Unfortunately for the joiner, your rights lie with him - as a consumer.

Yes, it puzzles me too why howdens operate like this but they only deal with 'trade' so it's not possible for a person off the street to buy a kitchen from them directly. 
  
Surely howdens wouldn't have any kitchen fitters willing to deal with them if they were refusing to refund faulty products.    

Bradden

One of the  selling points of Howdens is that the products are only available to the trade which gives their customers an edge over Wickes B&Q etc.

nicola8525

MattMattMattUK said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I thought that this sort of thing had been covered a couple of months ago?  I thought the advice had been that so long as the purchaser was a bona fide "consumer" then consumer rights applied to "trade only" outlets too.

The issue is usually how the trade is conducted, most of the time the invoice from Howden's is in the name of the fitter and the end user pays Howden's directly, but technically in breach of their account terms and conditions. Most of the tradespeople that do it do so avoid hitting the VAT threshold, even though technically as it is going through their account it counts as their trade. 

I paid the fitter, not howdens.  Which I suppose is why howden's are saying I don't have any consumer rights.    

nicola8525

Manxman_in_exile said:

I thought that this sort of thing had been covered a couple of months ago?  I thought the advice had been that so long as the purchaser was a bona fide "consumer" then consumer rights applied to "trade only" outlets too.

I suppose the problem here from the OP's point of view is that although they may have dealt with Howden's themselves, they paid via their fitter so he was Howden's customer, not the OP.

(I have a lot of sympathy for the fitter if Howden's was not a supplier he would not have used but for the OP's choice.  The tumble drier still needs to comply with the old SOGA requirements as far as the fitter is concerned doesn't it?  Like fit for purpose?)

That's good to know thanks.  I did look for guidance but couldn't really find anything.  

I do feel for the fitter too.  By the sounds of it, my claim is with him and his claim is with howdens.  Hoping howdens will be more cooperative with him than they have with me.  

Diamandis

When you take a kettle back to John Lewis you dont worry about if they'll get their money back from Russell Hobbs. It's the same thing. If it's not working it's up to the person you have a contract with to resolve.