Nearby new development - issues?

leypt1

Subtitled: Why do we bother

Having just come out of a very protracted failed purchase, we've had an offer accepted on a house this week.

It had an asking price in line with/higher than what others on the street have sold for over the last 1-2 years, but seemed like a brilliant bargain (we'd never dreamed that we could get a 3 bed freehold in zone 3 of London).

Here's why:


Permission was granted in 2016 for a new, high-density housing development! We did notice/enquire about this at the viewing, but the estate agent assured us it was a 4 storey block in the footprint of an old industrial building. However, this has sat in the back of our minds this week, which is why we spent this afternoon investigating further.

It's actually a set of 4 and 7 storey buildings which will stretch quite far back.

My questions are:

-From our potential future house (marked with the arrow and the X), how will the new development affect the view from the garden? How might it affect sunlight? Will the entire vista be taken up by buildings? The garden is south facing, but tiny, and already squarely backs onto the side of a 2 storey house, which means there's already limited open sky visible (to the SE/E side)
-Ground has broken on the construction site. What will noise levels be like for the next few years? Are there legal limits on decibel levels, times of day when construction can take place, etc.?
-Will a set of fancy new flats (sadly only 10% affordable) have a positive or negative impact on the value of the house over 10 years? Currently it's a victorian-era, low-rise industrial estate which was derelict for a while but now has some live-work units occupied by small businesses.
-Not a question but the S106 contribution is pathetic, so there are basically no benefits to the wider community/area as far as I can tell.

We're really gutted about this as we're exhausted by the last year of trying and failing to find/buy our first hope, so hoping for good news but open to hard realism before we get too deep into the process.

Thank you!

moneysavinghero

If you find something that you think is a bargain there is usually a reason. Market forces will normally find the correct price for a house.

leypt1

moneysavinghero said:

If you find something that you think is a bargain there is usually a reason. Market forces will normally find the correct price for a house.

Thanks, we figured it's because it's a timber-framed ex-council house on a slightly naff estate. Great to know there was more!

Any views on our questions?

Seashell517

leypt1 said:

-From our potential future house (marked with the arrow and the X), how will the new development affect the view from the garden? How might it affect sunlight? Will the entire vista be taken up by buildings? The garden is south facing, but tiny, and already squarely backs onto the side of a 2 storey house, which means there's already limited open sky visible (to the SE/E side)
-Ground has broken on the construction site. What will noise levels be like for the next few years? Are there legal limits on decibel levels, times of day when construction can take place, etc.?
-Will a set of fancy new flats (sadly only 10% affordable) have a positive or negative impact on the value of the house over 10 years? Currently it's a victorian-era, low-rise industrial estate which was derelict for a while but now has some live-work units occupied by small businesses.
-Not a question but the S106 contribution is pathetic, so there are basically no benefits to the wider community/area as far as I can tell.

We're really gutted about this as we're exhausted by the last year of trying and failing to find/buy our first hope, so hoping for good news but open to hard realism before we get too deep into the process.

Thank you!

To me it looks like the 7 storey block is quite far from your garden? So I don't think sunlight would be a problem, at least in summer. With regards to views of buildings, I would go and stand in the garden as it is now (or as close as you can get) and see if you can see the buildings already there. If you know how tall they are, then you can estimate if they were twice, three, etc times taller.

I don't think there are limits on decibels, but there are hours within which they are permitted to work. I live on a new build estate and moved in during the first phase. From our FB group I know that the start times had to be raised a few times with the builders in other areas, but they did respond and stop the early starts when it was commented on. The main issue that I had was my washing getting more dirty from being hung outside than it was before it was washed. I know that some people on the estate did get their cars washed by the builders when they were in very close proximity...

Can't speak to values where you are, but I know that the new developments on the side of the town that I'm living in are considered to have dragged prices up a bit in the surrounding area. The build did include a primary school, a large park plus some smaller ones, a community centre and is meant to eventually have shops as well though. And the S106 payments meant the bus route continued and I think helped to find a new build GP surgery/community hospital.

AdrianC

leypt1 said:

Permission was granted in 2016 for a new, high-density housing development! We did notice/enquire about this at the viewing, but the estate agent assured us it was a 4 storey block in the footprint of an old industrial building. However, this has sat in the back of our minds this week, which is why we spent this afternoon investigating further.

It's actually a set of 4 and 7 storey buildings which will stretch quite far back.

My questions are:

-From our potential future house (marked with the arrow and the X), how will the new development affect the view from the garden? How might it affect sunlight? Will the entire vista be taken up by buildings? The garden is south facing, but tiny, and already squarely backs onto the side of a 2 storey house, which means there's already limited open sky visible (to the SE/E side)

I think you have your answer. Pretty much due east, along the line of your terrace.

I doubt the 7 storey block is going to be hugely visible behind the 4 - it's less than twice the height, but about twice the distance, from looking at that.

-Ground has broken on the construction site. What will noise levels be like for the next few years? Are there legal limits on decibel levels, times of day when construction can take place, etc.?

It's London. Noise is inevitable and constant.

Most of the noise is likely to be internal - and 8-5 M-F.

-Will a set of fancy new flats (sadly only 10% affordable) have a positive or negative impact on the value of the house over 10 years? Currently it's a victorian-era, low-rise industrial estate which was derelict for a while but now has some live-work units occupied by small businesses.

leypt1 said:

Thanks, we figured it's because it's a timber-framed ex-council house on a slightly naff estate. Great to know there was more!

I rather suspect the effect will be positivish. Bit of gentrification, and a chunk of general upgrade. Nice flats are "better" than low-rent light-industrial.

leypt1

Thanks both, this was surprisingly positive (although the s106 for your local development sounds incredibly good, @Seashell517)

We had a sadness beer in the garden of our latest air bnb this evening - small, West facing, tall wall at the bottom, a 4 storey block quite close to the east - and realised that if you're sitting down the block is basically irrelevant. The biggest impact to the sunshine is the wall at the bottom of the garden, which we'd already figured.

leypt1

A further question - we've been busy worrying about the construction, but are we worrying about the wrong thing?

Should we actually be concerned that the house is a 1970s timber framed build?

The lenders that our broker has initially spoken to haven't ruled it out outright, and the estate agent told us that he's recently (in the last 1.5 years) sold two houses on the same street to mortgaged buyers. However, we're worried about whether lenders will consider it unmortgageable when we come to sell it a few years down the line, which could make it difficult to sell.

What is the likelihood of this happening? Does it depend on the specific type of timber frame construction, or do these houses have a lifespan which might be up by the time we come to sell? 

princeofpounds

There are several websites that will estimate overshadowing for you on google maps e.g. http://shadowcalculator.eu/

Noise from construction will be Mon-Sat 8am-5pm in theory. In reality, it will spill out of those times in my experience, but bigger builds are normally more responsible with hours of working. There will be parts of the build that are very noisy, ground works etc., and parts of the build that are not noisy at all. Given you are not right next to the development I suspect it will be annoying but tolerable. You may find that traffic and parking are bigger issues than noise.

I would view it as an opportunity if the property is otherwise really good and you are intending to be there for some time - development, once complete, does not tend to downvalue nearby housing unless there are very specific adverse effects. Certainly in London there is nothing odd about having a block of flats down the road.

It is possible to get mortgages on timber framed buildings, but it's on a more case-by-case basis. The link below give you a sense - most importantly if you go halfway down the policies of some major lenders are outlined. Basically - 1970 onwards is usually good, the other main thing is no cavity wall insulation, and a decent survey. It's not a lifespan issue, it's about quality of construction. 

We cannot say for certain how lenders will treat timber frame properties in future, but I'm not aware of any great tightening of the rules over time. It's a significant segment of the market, so is unlikely to be totally neglected. But that's just my opinion.

https://www.onlinemortgageadvisor.co.uk/property-types/timber-framed-property/

leypt1

princeofpounds said:

There are several websites that will estimate overshadowing for you on google maps e.g. http://shadowcalculator.eu/

Noise from construction will be Mon-Sat 8am-5pm in theory. In reality, it will spill out of those times in my experience, but bigger builds are normally more responsible with hours of working. There will be parts of the build that are very noisy, ground works etc., and parts of the build that are not noisy at all. Given you are not right next to the development I suspect it will be annoying but tolerable. You may find that traffic and parking are bigger issues than noise.

I would view it as an opportunity if the property is otherwise really good and you are intending to be there for some time - development, once complete, does not tend to downvalue nearby housing unless there are very specific adverse effects. Certainly in London there is nothing odd about having a block of flats down the road.

It is possible to get mortgages on timber framed buildings, but it's on a more case-by-case basis. The link below give you a sense - most importantly if you go halfway down the policies of some major lenders are outlined. Basically - 1970 onwards is usually good, the other main thing is no cavity wall insulation, and a decent survey. It's not a lifespan issue, it's about quality of construction. 

We cannot say for certain how lenders will treat timber frame properties in future, but I'm not aware of any great tightening of the rules over time. It's a significant segment of the market, so is unlikely to be totally neglected. But that's just my opinion.

https://www.onlinemortgageadvisor.co.uk/property-types/timber-framed-property/

Thank you! The shadow website was really useful.

It's definitely not otherwise really good, being timber framed and with a tiny shaded courtyard garden, but a 3 bed house (or even flat) without these compromises in the same area would be at least 70k more (more like £125k for a Victorian terrace)! It's near my family and friends in North london, a vibrant area, an ok commute, and near lots of  green space, so we're keen to make it work if we can. 

We're just trying to understand what's one compromise too many before we risk buying something unsaleable. Quite possibly we'll just give up/in and move to plaistow 

SandyN21

leypt1 said:

princeofpounds said:

There are several websites that will estimate overshadowing for you on google maps e.g. http://shadowcalculator.eu/

Noise from construction will be Mon-Sat 8am-5pm in theory. In reality, it will spill out of those times in my experience, but bigger builds are normally more responsible with hours of working. There will be parts of the build that are very noisy, ground works etc., and parts of the build that are not noisy at all. Given you are not right next to the development I suspect it will be annoying but tolerable. You may find that traffic and parking are bigger issues than noise.

I would view it as an opportunity if the property is otherwise really good and you are intending to be there for some time - development, once complete, does not tend to downvalue nearby housing unless there are very specific adverse effects. Certainly in London there is nothing odd about having a block of flats down the road.

It is possible to get mortgages on timber framed buildings, but it's on a more case-by-case basis. The link below give you a sense - most importantly if you go halfway down the policies of some major lenders are outlined. Basically - 1970 onwards is usually good, the other main thing is no cavity wall insulation, and a decent survey. It's not a lifespan issue, it's about quality of construction. 

We cannot say for certain how lenders will treat timber frame properties in future, but I'm not aware of any great tightening of the rules over time. It's a significant segment of the market, so is unlikely to be totally neglected. But that's just my opinion.

https://www.onlinemortgageadvisor.co.uk/property-types/timber-framed-property/

Thank you! The shadow website was really useful.

It's definitely not otherwise really good, being timber framed and with a tiny shaded courtyard garden, but a 3 bed house (or even flat) without these compromises in the same area would be at least 70k more (more like £125k for a Victorian terrace)! It's near my family and friends in North london, a vibrant area, an ok commute, and near lots of  green space, so we're keen to make it work if we can. 

We're just trying to understand what's one compromise too many before we risk buying something unsaleable. Quite possibly we'll just give up/in and move to plaistow 

Hi... is this the Bury Street West development?

mooneysaver

The main risk will be shadows. This is where an object blocks the light waves coming from the sun. Take a look here for more information: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow