How much to spend on a blowtorch for DIY plumbing?

ChasingtheWelshdream

Hello again,

On previous threads, I have asked about radiators, pipes and valves. I'm quite proud that I have now chased out the walls, re-routed pipes and swapped to a column radiator - with everything still working and dry! But, I used a combination of pushfit and compression joints, which although technically OK, are not exactly pretty or professional. (I'm leaving them all uncovered for a while to triple check they stay secure, and even then they will be behind panelling, so easy access in case of disaster!)

 As I have some more rooms to do, I want to learn to solder and have plenty of spare pipe/fittings to practice on. There's no hurry, and I'm prepared to make a fair few mistakes, but I'm hoping with enough practice I'll be competent enough to make a better job of the pipework next time round. Then lead on to some of the other plumbing tasks in future, like jigging the bathroom around.

I've been looking at blowtorches and the Rotherburger ones with MAPP gas seem to be highly recommended, but at a price. And these are professionals recommending them, who have need for decent kit. As I have no need for the heat MAPP gives, and will be using sporadically over time, I'd rather spend a bit less if possible.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good torch, aimed at us humble DIY folk? I'm not sure if links to shops are allowed - I've seen one in Toolstation for £32ish, running on Campingaz (butane/propane mix), but like all things, very mixed reviews.  

Any thoughts for a very novice, very keen, but also slightly skint wannabe plumber?

Electrical and lead (stained glass) soldering, I'm a dab hand at, but then again, they don't cause floods if they fail ;-)

nofoollikeold

1. The key things for a plumbing blowtorch are that:
1a. It will provide enough heat.
1b. It will work in any orientation.
2. You don't need MAPP gas for 15 or 22 mm pipework, propane is fine, and in many ways better as there is less risk of overheating the joint and burning out the flux.  You can do 28 mm with propane, but the extra heat from MAPP can make it easier.
3. In my opinion the Rothenberger Super Fire 2 is the best, but its expensive.  You could look at the Monument "Contractors", but you'd need to find out if it will work in any orientation.  Another good torch is the Bernzomatic, but its more expensive than the Monument.  

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thank you, much appreciated. I agree I don't need MAPP for the things I have planned. 

I've seen good reviews of the Superfire, but yes definitely too expensive for me at the moment. Once all my projects are done, I'm hoping it won't be needed for a few years.

Is propane/butane mix (campingaz) any good or best avoided? Toolstation do the Monument for £39 + gas, so not too much more.

So what else makes a good torch? Assuming the gas is sufficient for the heat, and it can be used upside down? What makes the price vary so much?

m0t

I did all my pipework with a cheap glo start torch from b&q. It worked perfectly fine for 15mm heating pipework.

I've also used it on the car a few times.

tacpot12

I would go with the Rotherberger Super Fire 2 torch. I've stopped spending money on cheap tools even unless I will only use it once. For a tool that will take practice to learn to use, I would definitely pay a bit more for the professional quality. Screwfix sell propane for the Super Fire 2, so go with that as per the advice above. 

fezster

I've done some DIY soldering and the Monument 3450g is absolutely fine. Works in any orientation too. It used to be around £35, but has gone up a little now.

The advice for burying pipes in walls is to use copper and soldered joints only - with suitable insulation wrapped around the pipes to protect them from the plaster.

daivid

I have a Turbotorch Extreme which was about £70 IIRC (seem to be about £90 now). It's very good, will work at all angles and I have a propane canister and a map canister which I swap between. I rarely use the map but it is handy if I need to work on pipe I cannot get all the water out of. I hadn't meant to spend so much, my £20 camping gaz torch had done a fair few bits and bobs happily but it failed with the pipe cut meaning no water until I got a new torch. The turbo torch was the cheapest I could get that day that was better than the real cheapos which can't cope with awkward spaces which most repairs seem to involve...

ChasingtheWelshdream

Thank you all for the comments, I found a Super Fire 2 bundle including propane and hot bag for £75 delivered, which is cheaper than the torch alone at my local outfits. After totting up all the plumbing jobs that will eventually need doing, I decided to splurge on better quality at the outset. (Yes, I am aware of the blaming bad tools proverb so feel a tad guilty....) On the other hand, I'll save on compression/push fit fittings so will even out.
 
Fezster:  The work I've done thus far is cunningly not actually buried in plaster. It's either in conduit or felt-wrap to avoid contact with masonry behind, and will be covered with wall panelling with an access hatch in case of emergencies.

ChasingtheWelshdream

Evening, I just thought I'd let you know how I got on (as I'm feeling pretty chuffed).

I kept looking at the push-fit/compression/hand bends malarkey I'd done on my first rad, and although it technically worked, it was pretty ugly. Even though it will be hidden, I decided to have another go. 

To save draining the system again (and waste the inhibitor I'd just put in), I used a freeze kit and added isolation valves to the flow/return, then removed all the pipework from that point to the valves.  I spent a couple of evenings at the kitchen table, following various YouTube instructions and  just practising over and over on scrap pipe until I got the feel for it. This is 10mm pipe so it was tricky judging the heat, but once I was more confident, I would solder a joint, then cut it open and inspect it, until I was happy I was getting good capillary action inside. Then started practicing at different angles, again just to see if I could get good consistent coverage.

So today I took the plunge and just went for it. I ended up doing all the soldering at the kitchen table, made the final connections to the isolation/rad valves, then let the water flow......

.....and.....it......works! I've sat for a good half hour with a torch and tissues, inspecting each joint and they're watertight!

It's taken me an age to practice and I am perhaps a tad too worried preparing the joints (and polishing off any snots   )so not exactly quick. But, it looks sooooo much better than before, all nice elbows and smooth joints. 

I have no idea how much difference the SuperFire made, it being my first torch, but the heat was very controllable and consistent. So, very happy.

My kids have decided to call me Mummy the Plumby  Hardly, but at least they've noticed my efforts. 

neilmcl

Good for you mate 👍

fezster

Awesome. Give it a few days just to be extra certain nothing is weeping. And ensure you add suitable covering before plastering over.