B&B

Kaz1000

edgex said:

Council have said the property was paying Council Tax, not Business Rates
Your buying a property, that was originally built & used as a residential property, not the business.

Why would the bank have an issue?
All their checking is that it isn't a dodgy conversion of somewhere that was built as a hotel & doesn't have permission to be residential.

Thanks for the response. We had the council just respond to our queries from 3 weeks ago. They agree we can complete purchase, move in and then put in a retrospective application for change in use and they don't see any reason why it won't be accepted.
We forwarded the response to our solicitor and awaiting his response.
Hopefully it all works out as it is a beautiful house and within walking distance to a school for our toddler.

Kaz1000

Problem again. Since my last post, we spoke with the lender who said the offer still stands for the purchase. The council agreed to let us move in and then change use.
The solicitor however is going to write a report for the lender to state it is a B&B. We have no issues with him doing this report but hope he will also highlight the face the council agreed for us to move in and then put through an application for change in use.
It makes no sense if we go through an application for change in use before purchasing the property as we are basically narrowing the market for the sellers if the sale does not go through. I know if I had a property with such use (b&b), no ways will I convert it back as it narrows my market for sale.
But like I said at the start, the solicitor is hell bent on us not getting this loan.
Everything seems to be going in our favour with all his negative opinions. We do have the searchers and deposit of 20% all set and want to complete by late April.
Any idea how long does it take for a solicitor to write up and report and for the lender to respond? We have a plan B should the lender backtrack on the offer. And we just need to know the outcome to switch to plan B so we make it in time for end of April.

grumiofoundation

But like I said at the start, the solicitor is hell bent on us not getting this loan.

If you genuinely believe that - why on earth haven't you changed solicitor by this point? 

However it sounds like everything is fine?  - if lender has confirmed offer still stands and council has agreed for change of use post-move in.

Seems like solicitor is just covering his back and making sure the lender (who he also represents) has all the information they require. 

davidmcn

Kaz1000 said:

the solicitor is hell bent on us not getting this loan.

Don't be daft. Why would they be wasting their time with the transaction at all if they didn't want it to happen?

Kaz1000

grumiofoundation said:

But like I said at the start, the solicitor is hell bent on us not getting this loan.

If you genuinely believe that - why on earth haven't you changed solicitor by this point? 

However it sounds like everything is fine?  - if lender has confirmed offer still stands and council has agreed for change of use post-move in.

Seems like solicitor is just covering his back and making sure the lender (who he also represents) has all the information they require. 

Agree with you that he is covering his back. We just want him to get the report out at least by the end of this week. He had over a week to write up a report since the offer was officially sent to him by the lender but he did nothing until we pushed for a move in date.
Weren't sure about the process for changing solicitors and where to start. 

Kaz1000

davidmcn said:

Kaz1000 said:

the solicitor is hell bent on us not getting this loan.

Don't be daft. Why would they be wasting their time with the transaction at all if they didn't want it to happen?

Ego is a big issue for solicitors at least some. 1. Before we applied for the mortgage, he said we won't get it because of it being a B&B and in his work experience, no one ever got a residential mortgage on a B&B property.
2.When we got the offer he still said we can't move into a B&B. We go the council to email confirmation that we can move in.
3.Now he is writing a report and still says it is a B&B. I'm sure the lender should be fine as we have all the relevant documents from council.
My point is, get the report out and stop being so fickle minded that your ego is blocking you from accepting that lots of things happen outside one's own experience.

PollyWollyDoodle

It’s really not his ego. He has a duty to represent you and also a duty to represent the lender. It’s normal to confirm that a residential property has got residential planning permission. This doesn’t, it’s all very well the council saying ‘it shouldn’t be a problem’ but that isn’t the same as having a change of use. How would you feel if you’d moved in and then you’ve got a visit from the enforcement officer saying that you are not using the property for the agreed purpose? The solicitor is simply doing his job, and fulfilling his duty (remember he acts for the lender as well as for you) by giving them a clear report. In the same way that he quite correctly advised you, when you first looked at the property, that you might have difficulty with the mortgage.  Perhaps you’d rather have a solicitor who ignores these requirements and just says “don’t worry, it will be fine”?

Kaz1000

PollyWollyDoodle said:

It’s really not his ego. He has a duty to represent you and also a duty to represent the lender. It’s normal to confirm that a residential property has got residential planning permission. This doesn’t, it’s all very well the council saying ‘it shouldn’t be a problem’ but that isn’t the same as having a change of use. How would you feel if you’d moved in and then you’ve got a visit from the enforcement officer saying that you are not using the property for the agreed purpose? The solicitor is simply doing his job, and fulfilling his duty (remember he acts for the lender as well as for you) by giving them a clear report. In the same way that he quite correctly advised you, when you first looked at the property, that you might have difficulty with the mortgage.  Perhaps you’d rather have a solicitor who ignores these requirements and just says “don’t worry, it will be fine”?

The planning enforcement officer sent us the below email:

  "With regard to any obstacles which would prevent you from completing the purchase of the above property, I can only comment from a planning perspective and as far as I am aware there are none – your solicitor will be looking into any other matters and advising you accordingly.

·         Can the official change of use application be submitted after the house move?  Yes, an application can be submitted once you move into the property, the application can be completed online via the planning portal: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/

·         Is the application likely to be approved?  Whilst there is no guarantee for the outcome of any application, as they cannot be pre-determined, I would comment that, as the property was previously residential, there is no policy constraints which would mean that to revert back to residential would be unacceptable. "

Wouldn't this suffice for confirmation? We basically did most of the work for the solicitor and basically paying him to provide negative opinions and delaying any progress. We got referred to this solicitor by our EA. Regretting it now. 

davidmcn

It's not normal for a standard residential mortgage lender to be taking any sort of gamble about the prospects of future planning applications. They keep their costs down in part by simplifying their processes, rather than having underwriters etc weighing things up and assessing risks in odd situations. Like I said above, the expectation is that the property already has suitable planning consent, and that's a box your solicitor simply cannot tick.

saajan_12

Kaz1000 said:

PollyWollyDoodle said:

It’s really not his ego. He has a duty to represent you and also a duty to represent the lender. It’s normal to confirm that a residential property has got residential planning permission. This doesn’t, it’s all very well the council saying ‘it shouldn’t be a problem’ but that isn’t the same as having a change of use. How would you feel if you’d moved in and then you’ve got a visit from the enforcement officer saying that you are not using the property for the agreed purpose? The solicitor is simply doing his job, and fulfilling his duty (remember he acts for the lender as well as for you) by giving them a clear report. In the same way that he quite correctly advised you, when you first looked at the property, that you might have difficulty with the mortgage.  Perhaps you’d rather have a solicitor who ignores these requirements and just says “don’t worry, it will be fine”?

The planning enforcement officer sent us the below email:

  "With regard to any obstacles which would prevent you from completing the purchase of the above property, I can only comment from a planning perspective and as far as I am aware there are none – your solicitor will be looking into any other matters and advising you accordingly.

·         Can the official change of use application be submitted after the house move?  Yes, an application can be submitted once you move into the property, the application can be completed online via the planning portal: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/

·         Is the application likely to be approved?  Whilst there is no guarantee for the outcome of any application, as they cannot be pre-determined, I would comment that, as the property was previously residential, there is no policy constraints which would mean that to revert back to residential would be unacceptable. "

Wouldn't this suffice for confirmation? We basically did most of the work for the solicitor and basically paying him to provide negative opinions and delaying any progress. We got referred to this solicitor by our EA. Regretting it now. 

The email literally says IF you apply for retrospective change in planning, then it Probably would be approved. Its not a guarantee that (a) it will be approved and (b) until the approval, the council won't take enforcement action.  I might decide that % chance is worth the risk, but the lender doesn't have to agree. 

You're paying the solicitor to act for the vendor, which entails the opinions that you call negative. The alternative is 
a) the lender has their own solicitor, which they'll only do if  you pay for it, to double up on work your solicitor has done -> so extra costs plus the 2nd solicitor is still providing the negative opinions. 
b) your solicitor acts for both but fails in their duty to make the lender aware of any pertinent facts. With only positive opinions, you could exchange, then the lender finds out about the current planning status, withdraws the mortgage offer, and you can't complete -> Your seller sues you for everything.