MET McDonalds Hire car PCN

romantix

Hi you brilliant people! thanks in advance for the time you put in to helping people with this - heres hoping its outlawed soon!!

I've received a parking ticket from MET McDonalds with a hire car (Greenmotion) in a disabled bay (the car park was empty and was waiting for a friend buying mcdonalds)
Parking charge date: 11/10/2020
NTK (sent to Greenmotion car hire office address):  letter dated 17/11/20 (stated 'date of issue' in letter: 2/11/20)
Debt recovery Plus letter sent to me: dated 5/3/21 - this was the first correspondence I received about the parking charge notice which i have since contacted greenmotion who forwarded me the NTK letter. 

So far I have called mcdonalds directly, cant help as is a disabled bay contravention. 
I've tried to view the evidence on MET website to write an appeal, it says they cannot 'find my ticket' - i assume due to being passed to debt collector. 

So good news is greenmotion is out of the correspondence now and I am following up with them separately re £84(!!!) 'administration' charge. 

My question is is there any specific route I should go down re letter and as my ticket isn't registering on the MET appeal site should I just find an email address for them? (Debt recovery have no email or reference of course to appeal)

As I understand it the main reasons for appeal should be in the time delay from me receiving any notification directly? They note in the debt recovery letter: 'Details were originally sent to the address provided by the DVLA for the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date the parking charge was issued'

In order to get my popla code (is that still possible with the time passed?) is there anything more that would be worth adding to the below re the normal longer appeal letter, or do i save that for Popla?

thank you!!!

***
To whom it may concern, 

I have just received a letter (received 17/3/21, dated 5/3/21) from Debt Recovery Plus  regarding a demand for payment for an 'unpaid parking charge notice': xxx - vehicle reg: xxx that supposedly took place on 11/10/20.

As this is the first I have heard from you regarding any 'Parking Charge Notice', I have contacted my car hire firm (Greenmotion), who have forwarded to me the Notice to Hirer letter you sent them (dated 17th November 2020). Based on this letter and that of the one I recently received, you have failed on several counts, to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012:

• Failing to deliver to the hire company the original Notice to Keeper within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act.
• Failing to deliver a Notice to Hirer/keeper within the relevant period of 21 days as required by section 14 (3), and also failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act.

Because of your failures you cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours 
***

Umkomaas

Make sure to send a photocopy of your Blue Badge with any correspondence. 

If this is with DRP it's too late to appeal to POPLA. Unless you get a cancellation from McD's, you're just going to have to hope MET don't press court proceedings. They have 6 years to do so. 

Good luck with GreenMotion getting that admin fee cancelled. You need to check very carefully what their contract, which you signed, says about parking charge notices, penalty charge notices, motoring fines and so on. Therein might be an out for you, but it won't be easy. It's all a bit of a mess. 

romantix

Thanks for your response - but because they havent sent me any of the letters in the correct period I am at fault and can all but only wait on potential court action? 
I dont own a blue badge - but as i would expect regardless of the paint on the ground, a private parking fine is illegal and should be challenged? 
Green motion have now cancelled half of the admin fee. Im working on the other half!

If anyone has any other advice/guidance on this it would be much appreciated. Do you think its worth raising my head up to MET with the above letter? 

KeithP

romantix said:

I dont own a blue badge - but as i would expect regardless of the paint on the ground, a private parking fine is illegal and should be challenged? 

It is not illegal... and please stop using the word 'fine'.
You have not received any fine - just a speculative invoice.

Your continued use of that F-word will not help you retrieve the outstanding admin fee because, almost certainly, Green Motion's T&Cs justify their charging of fines.

nosferatu1001

Noone said you were at fault. Sigh. 
Read what is written, not what yoiu assumed, please!
And as noted, parking CHARGES by private firms CAN be lawful, and they CAN be UNlawful

romantix

well.. this has taken a turn!
thanks re 'illlegal' correction, 'fine' argument I had used it to greenmotion pre this post re invoice argument - a slip up here only on my part.

I appreciate answering these posts must be tiring and in equal measure frustrating - and I am grateful to anyone who would like to help - but placing assumptions to the side for us all, my questions are:

• good idea to send above letter still to MET? anything else anyone recommends to add? 
• Is my argument correct re timescales - i assume im not the only one to have not been sent letters, and was sure this was a thing re timescales for receiving NTK etc?
• When/if they reject appeal, if POPLA is a no go, any other ideas? (chasing McDonalds avenue already)

thanks!

Redx

1) yes , send the letter , it cannot harm your case as long as the driver is not revealed

2) just because no letters were received , do not assume that none were sent , not unless the claimant cannot produce copies of anything sent to the hirer

as for the registered keeper , that is not you , so as you are not that data subject you have no entitlement to the data of Greenmotion , the RK , so not able to demand the NTK etc

you can only obtain your own data, nobody elses , plus as a hirer or lessee you would never receive an NTK, only an NTH

3) these are your only options for England & Wales

a) a landowner or managing agent or retailer complaint & cancellation (plan A)

b) an appeal as hirer (plan B )

c) an appeal to Popla as hirer (plan C)

d) civil court (plan D)

e) unless 6 years has elapsed and then its statute barred

romantix

Thank you!
meant NTH - Greenmotion offered this up to me when i contacted them about the admin charge. 
Cool - will send MET the letter (plan and continue with Plan A. and generally harassing GM to cancel the admin charge or go to my credit card company!
You mention POPLA plan C - is this still an option based on timescales in your opinion?

Fruitcake

PoPLA will only be available if you have received a NTH from the scammers, and have appealed and had it rejected, and been given a PoPLA code. You can only get a NTH if the hire/lease company have sent the transfer of liability tear off strip to the scammers.
If they haven't, then they are still liable for the invoice.

romantix

hiiya fruitcake - thanks for your message. i assume that they have as they have my details to send debt collection letter and they said that they have when i contacted Greenmotion? 
I'll ask MET/scammers(!) to send me PoPLA code anyway based on not receiving any prior letter to debt and see what happens!

Fruitcake

You need to find out exactly what the hire/lease company has done, and exactly what they have told the scammers.
They cannot name the driver unless they were a witness to the alleged event, or the driver or hirer/lessee told them the driver's identity.
As I said previously, you can't ask for a PoPLA code unless you have received a NTH in your name, have appealed to the scammers, and have had it rejected, and been supplied with a code. You can't just ask for a PoPLA code if you haven't previously appealed in your name as hirer/lessee.
You can't assume Greenmotion transferred liability. You need to be absolutely certain about what they have done.

You can tell the scammers you haven't received a NTH so you cannot be held liable, so they should take this matter up with the keeper. The danger for you is that the hire/lease company will pay the scamvoice then deduct payment from you.
This is why you need to find out what Greenmotion have done.
Did they transfer liability in accordance with the PoFA 2012 that has been the law for over eight years? If they did, then you complain to the scammers and their ATA that you never received a NTH.

If Greenmotion have not transferred liability to you, then point out that they have failed the strict requirements of the PoFA, meaning that they are liable for the charge, not you. Make sure you instruct them not to pay the charge and then take money from you. Also point out that by not transferring liability to you, they are denying you the right to appeal, which is a breach of the ADR Act 2015.
PoFA is the law, and they must abide by it. Also point out that once they have transferred liability in the correct manner, they can no longer be held liable, and you will deal with this yourself from that point on.

If Greenmotion are members of the BVRLA (hire lease companies trade association) then also point out that the BVRLA has instructed its members not to pay these charges, but to transfer liability to the hirer/lessee.