Update: CEL PCN, we won at POPLA! Thank you everyone!

creek48

Le_Kirk said:

creek48 said:

Regarding the formatting problems, I did write everything in a grammar check app and then paste them here. Oddly enough that everything looks fine when I click preview before I post but it changes to this weird format after I posted. I am so sorry for the inconvenience caused. Is there a way where I can edit the format again?

I find that posting in WordPad, copy and then paste as plain text into the forum box normally does the job and then adjust formatting on the forum but it is a forum and not a desk top publisher so does have its shortcomings.

Hi Le_Kirk, many thanks for the information. Sorry if the question is silly but I don't seem to able to find the edit button to my current post. Am I missing it or is it because I am here not long enough to edit?

nosferatu1001

Youre too new in terms of post count and time

creek48

creek48 said:

Hi everyone,

Newbies here. I received a PCN letter by post from Civil Enforcement Limited on 12 March 2021 from the incident on 04 March 2021. The driver parked in a car park but didn't notice the pay here sign. The car was there 17 mins 58 sec. 

I read a lot on here (even a few post regarding the same parking lot but with no luck finding a successful POPLA), and here is what I have done so far:

• Appealed to the CEL following the exact blue template letter of appeal
• Received CEL's appeal rejection with POPLA code letter by post

Now I am trying to put together an appeal to POPLA. Before I put together a draft, I have a few questions on my planned grounds of appeal. Could you be so kind as to advise me on the following:

• No Evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice
This might be the most vital point. In a previous post, I found CEL's alleged Proof of Land Authority for the same parking lot. The question is that is there something I can write in advance to prevent them from even submitting this alleged contract? e.g. to point out a valid contract should have two signatories from each company, etc.The link to CEL's alleged Proof of Land Authority is here: Sorry I can't post link yet, sorry!!hxxps://ibb.co/GRMBP87And the original post is this:forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6050449/update-cel-popla-response-with-alleged-proof-of-land-authority

• There are no entrance signs for the regular entry, and signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces.
Here is link to some pictures of the parking lot, could you kindly advise which one should be used? Also, there is some on-going construction, can you make a point about it? drive.google.com/drive/folders/12ZOF0FhbTGGeHAldNmnKSDhgP2atgOdX?usp=sharing
• No Keeper Liability
It looks like CEL's letter comes with POFA wording. Are there any points to raise here? Here are the redacted PCN and appeal rejection letter received:drive.google.com/drive/folders/1znAX-bpwoqUaLsS13r0jgKL36X1Pjo-2?usp=sharing
• Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance
There is a perfect example from the NEWBIE's link (parked for 10mins 48sec): www.dropbox.com/s/p7ltb9rcr6zy7kn/Appeal_stage2_POPLA_ECP_draft5.pdf?dl=0But my car was parked for 17 mins 58 sec. Does this still make a strong case regarding the grace period?

• The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge
CEL's alleged photo evidence does no shows the driver, so is it right to include this point? I have and will, of course, write as the keeper only.

• Is there any other points that can be added?

Thanks, everyone!!

This is what it looks like if I click on Quote (I can see the spacing now).

Fruitcake

Don't worry about the formatting. From now on, write direct into your subsequent posts wherever possible or use something like wordpad as already advised.

Do not try to navigate this forum on a 'phone either. It just doesn't work properly and you will miss important stuff.

creek48

Fruitcake said:

Don't worry about the formatting. From now on, write direct into your subsequent posts wherever possible or use something like wordpad as already advised.

Do not try to navigate this forum on a 'phone either. It just doesn't work properly and you will miss important stuff.

Thanks for the advice!

creek48

Hi everyone,
Hope you all have had a great holiday.

I now have a draft POPLA Appeal draft ready. Please find it from the link here:

h t t ps://docs.google.com/document/d/1HX_SnKSRD5h-kKvLiirYx0psIAMqB7IizT9po-N2PHI/edit?usp=sharing

Sorry I had to add some space as I can't post a link yet.

I have until 9th April to send off the appeal. I would really appreciate it if the experts here can kindly have a look at my draft.

Thanks a lot!

Le_Kirk

Your link made live: -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HX_SnKSRD5h-kKvLiirYx0psIAMqB7IizT9po-N2PHI/edit?usp=sharing

creek48

Le_Kirk said:

Your link made live: -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HX_SnKSRD5h-kKvLiirYx0psIAMqB7IizT9po-N2PHI/edit?usp=sharing

Thank you very much for this. Appreciate it if you could kindly provide some comments.

creek48

Just found out I can edit now. So I just edited my original post to fix the links and format and also posted my POPLA draft link there.

Coupon-mad

Get rid of this horrific intro.  It demonstrates a truly horrible annihilation of the English language that every other newbie decided to copy - arrgghh!:

I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated 09/03/2021 acting as a notice to the registered keeper. My appeal to the operator – Civil Enforcement Limited – was submitted and acknowledged on 12/03/2021 but subsequently rejected by a letter dated 15/03/2021. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and

There is no point talking about no keeper liability if the PCN was a POFA one - was it?  If so, then dump that point.

The section about the BPA CoP is over a year out of date. There are not two grace periods adding up to 20 minutes.

Signage is a major point and it's good to see you went to town over that, with photo evidence.  But your mention size '60 font'?  That's large, not half an inch!

I didn't see you point out that none of the signs have the parking charge anywhere (or if it is, the £sum is not readable).  

And this should be point #1 on its own:

Signage in the car park is what purports to form a contract with a motorist, yet the company name in bold on the sign (‘www.starpark.co.uk’), which is different to the name Civil Enforcement Ltd.