Bank requesting charge back refund back!

holz81

I think the main problem is also that I naively misunderstood what a chargeback was. I thought the chargeback was there as a last resort for customers who were unable to get a refund from the original supplier. Because I had tried and tried to contact the online travel agent for 4 months and was unable to get anywhere with them, I thought that the chargeback was the next step for me. I was trying to resolve it myself with the travel agent and I thought that the bank would not be helpful until it was obvious that I had exhausted every avenue myself. Had I known that there was a 120 day deadline, I would have saved myself hours and hours on hold to the travel agent and just gone straight to the bank in the first place - bizarrely, I was trying to do the bank a favour by attempting to resolve it myself! I did fill in a form, but after I submitted it, I heard nothing from the bank (HSBC) until the refund appeared in my account and then nothing more until they said they would take the money back off me.   
I am puzzled why they refunded me, if it was so obviously outside of 120 days. I rule I knew nothing about, but surely the bank should have spotted this and never refunded me? Is that a strong enough argument to request that the bank don't take the money back? Or will the bank just do the all powerful, "yes, we made a mistake, but we're allowed to if we want, now give us our money back!"  
Just another example of super rich companies walking all over people who thought they were doing the right thing, I suppose. 
Thanks for all the replies. I'm particularly interested to hear people's opinions on my chances of disputing this and convincing them not to take the money back off me? 

holz81

Is the 6th months it has taken for the bank to notice the error relevant here? It is clear that the refund should never have been made, but does the 45 day limit on reversals still apply to me? Could be a way to win the argument, if so. 

MattMattMattUK

holz81 said:

I think the main problem is also that I naively misunderstood what a chargeback was. I thought the chargeback was there as a last resort for customers who were unable to get a refund from the original supplier. Because I had tried and tried to contact the online travel agent for 4 months and was unable to get anywhere with them, I thought that the chargeback was the next step for me. I was trying to resolve it myself with the travel agent and I thought that the bank would not be helpful until it was obvious that I had exhausted every avenue myself. Had I known that there was a 120 day deadline, I would have saved myself hours and hours on hold to the travel agent and just gone straight to the bank in the first place - bizarrely, I was trying to do the bank a favour by attempting to resolve it myself! I did fill in a form, but after I submitted it, I heard nothing from the bank (HSBC) until the refund appeared in my account and then nothing more until they said they would take the money back off me.   
I am puzzled why they refunded me, if it was so obviously outside of 120 days. I rule I knew nothing about, but surely the bank should have spotted this and never refunded me? Is that a strong enough argument to request that the bank don't take the money back? Or will the bank just do the all powerful, "yes, we made a mistake, but we're allowed to if we want, now give us our money back!"  
Just another example of super rich companies walking all over people who thought they were doing the right thing, I suppose. 
Thanks for all the replies. I'm particularly interested to hear people's opinions on my chances of disputing this and convincing them not to take the money back off me? 

Zero, you were not eligible for the money, applied outside the permitted period in the regulations and the refund was processed in error.

holz81 said:

Is the 6th months it has taken for the bank to notice the error relevant here? It is clear that the refund should never have been made, but does the 45 day limit on reversals still apply to me? Could be a way to win the argument, if so. 

No, they have up to six years to correct any error. 

You obtained money to which you were not eligible, you made an incorrect application for Chargeback because you misunderstood the scheme, the bank originally processed it erroneously, likely to being utterly swamped with Charge back and S75 claims. Just because a processing error occurred does not entitle you to the money, the same with any other error.

holz81

Thank you. Not really what I wanted to hear, but appreciate the clear information.
Think I'm more annoyed with myself for being so stupid! 
Put it down to experience and move on....

CKhalvashi

holz81 said:

Is the 6th months it has taken for the bank to notice the error relevant here? It is clear that the refund should never have been made, but does the 45 day limit on reversals still apply to me? Could be a way to win the argument, if so. 

That one I'm not 100% sure.

I had a quick look at the FOS decisions website, but couldn't find anything overly similar.

In a complaint situation, the law would apply (and I have no idea of the legal standing of this, but do know that HSBC have 6 years to pursue you for any money you may owe them and suspect that you may actually owe them the money), but in addition it would a case of deciding what is fair.

If you can't afford to pay in one go (assuming the money is owed, see below), you may have to make a payment plan with HSBC for the purpose of repaying the debt, however I'd attempt to contact the general customer service line, speak to someone and get them to transfer you, possibly making a complaint in the process.

What you're looking to get from the bank is the legislation that applies in this case, the Visa/Mastercard payment rules that apply in this case and their reasoning for the chargeback reversal, there is one poster here who hasn't commented yet and I believe may have some knowledge on this subject, so hopefully they will post soon.

I assume you paid on a Debit Card given the information you have posted, but if you paid on a Credit Card, it may be worth putting the claim to them but this time under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act and not the Chargeback scheme.

holz81

I did pay on debit card, but does section 75 apply if I went into my overdraft when making the purchase?

Caz3121

As you are back to square one, I would concentrate efforts back with the OTA. Did you speak to the airline that cancelled the flight to confirm if your OTA requested and received the refund? Some airlines have been known to be very slow, some OTAs have also been slow but I would expect that, assuming a refund is due (and not wiped out by third party fees) 11 months is more than enough time. In which country is the OTA based?

bagand96

Caz3121 said:

As you are back to square one, I would concentrate efforts back with the OTA. Did you speak to the airline that cancelled the flight to confirm if your OTA requested and received the refund? Some airlines have been known to be very slow, some OTAs have also been slow but I would expect that, assuming a refund is due (and not wiped out by third party fees) 11 months is more than enough time. In which country is the OTA based?

I agree. OP get back in touch with the OTA for your refund. If they are UK based (or have a UK operation that your contract was with) then fire off a Letter Before Action giving them 14 days to refund before starting small claims court. 

eskbanker

holz81 said:

I did pay on debit card, but does section 75 apply if I went into my overdraft when making the purchase?

If you booked flights via a travel agent then section 75 doesn't apply anyway, as this breaks the required direct debtor-creditor-supplier chain....

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/#accordion-content-1036085567-1

es5595

No one appears to have suggested this yet, but since you mentioned it in your OP, I’m assuming you can’t afford to just lose an entire months salary. 

Open another account (starling is my recommendation as they act so quickly!) and get your salary paid into there whilst you dispute this. Whilst you’re contesting the chargeback, I believe they should hold on collecting it, so this will give you (a little!) time to save up the money for when it does happen.