Scottish power bill shock

dave8204

keithgawler said:
Also, I'm no expert but I'm sure I've seen some horror stories around SP and Eco7. You might want to seek advice on this from others on the YE forum.

I'm currently in the middle of a similar situation from when Robin Hood went bust and my account was handed to BG....except my bill was £642 for 11 weeks of gas and electricity from RH. I'm a very low user for a number of reasons I won't bore you with and my total bill for all energy with Robin Hood for the previous 12 months was a total of £420,so you can see how ridiculous their estimated bill was. When I contacted them they said BG were handling their accounts already so to get on to them. To cut a very long (and frustrating)story short (told in another thread) it's still not settled 5 months later but there's light at the end of the tunnel....hopefully.
From my experience I'd say get your payment records together and screen grab ,or at least get all your details from, as much billing information as you can if Yorkshire's website is still up and running,especially meter readings,even if they're estimates, if I'd done that my life would have been massively easier. Also don't give up,I got through 3 BG advisers before escalating to a complaint and finally someone who understood my problem....and immediately found a double charge and a whole lot more odd stuff that has gone on.
Good luck.

[Deleted User]

phillw said:

Dolor said:

The Final Bill is a catch-up bill that covers energy used in the period plus the energy not previously billed.

My Scottish Power final bill was also based on estimates, they wanted an extra £38.

The reading used for a Final Bill can be based on an estimate. This is common if previous bills have been based on estimates; if a Final Bill estimate is used then both suppliers have to use it to open and close accounts.

phillw

[Deleted User] said:
The reading used for a Final Bill can be based on an estimate. This is common if previous bills have been based on estimates; if a Final Bill estimate is used then both suppliers have to use it to open and close accounts.

The final bill was the first bill I received. The opening readings didn't match the ones I'd given them (which were the same as the ones that YE had on their final bill) & their web site never allowed me to enter a closing reading.

So I complained and they asked me for all the readings (which was the third time I'd given them opening readings) & they issued a new "final" bill.

[Deleted User]

phillw said:

Dolor said:
The reading used for a Final Bill can be based on an estimate. This is common if previous bills have been based on estimates; if a Final Bill estimate is used then both suppliers have to use it to open and close accounts.

The final bill was the first bill I received. The opening readings didn't match the ones I'd given them (which were the same as the ones that YE had on their final bill) & their web site never allowed me to enter a closing reading.

So I complained and they asked me for all the readings (which was the third time I'd given them opening readings) & they issued a new "final" bill.

At a time when energy prices are rising, it is often good to overpay the old supplier for energy that has not yet been consumed. Your new supplier can only charge for the daily standing charge until such time that the meter index passes the closing reading on the Final Bill. To put this into perspective, I once overpaid E.oN £70 for energy not yet consumed but I didn't pay Ovo anything but the standing charge for about 2 months. The actual difference in cost was not £70 but £2.34 as suppliers are not allowed to charge for the same energy twice. This is why there is an opening reading validation process.

If your old supplier has changed the Final Bill reading then you need to check that they haven't done this unilaterally. The gaining supplier is legally responsible for managing all transfers and it has to ensure that the opening and closing readings are the same.

https://octopus.energy/blog/handover-meter-readings/

phillw

Dolor said:
If your old supplier has changed the Final Bill reading then you need to check that they haven't done this unilaterally. The gaining supplier is legally responsible for managing all transfers and it has to ensure that the opening and closing readings are the same.

Avro hasn't been able to provide me any bills in the two and a half months I've been with them as the correct readings I gave on switching day haven't been validated "by the industry". If their opening read is not the same as the one that I gave them and that SP has now billed, then I will complain & I have photographs of the meters.

As SP prices were 25% higher than YE and still considerably more expensive than Avro, then there is no way on earth I was going to let SP grab an extra £34.66 by using incorrect opening and closing reads. It's already cost me £28.49 by being forced to use SP, along with the ongoing cost of not being able to sign up to the better tariffs available in December.

Not using the correct reading to gain an advantage sounds a whole lot like fraud, no matter which party is responsible.

MWT

phillw said:

Not using the correct reading to gain an advantage sounds a whole lot like fraud, no matter which party is responsible.

Unfortunately the 'correct' reading is not the one you saw on your meter, it is the one approved and often adjusted by 'the industry'.

There are limits on how far it can deviate, but unless it is over those limits there is no right of appeal.

[Deleted User]

phillw said:

Dolor said:
If your old supplier has changed the Final Bill reading then you need to check that they haven't done this unilaterally. The gaining supplier is legally responsible for managing all transfers and it has to ensure that the opening and closing readings are the same.

Avro hasn't been able to provide me any bills in the two and a half months I've been with them as the correct readings I gave on switching day haven't been validated "by the industry". If their opening read is not the same as the one that I gave them and that SP has now billed, then I will complain & I have photographs of the meters.

As SP prices were 25% higher than YE and still considerably more expensive than Avro, then there is no way on earth I was going to let SP grab an extra £34.66 by using incorrect opening and closing reads. It's already cost me £28.49 by being forced to use SP, along with the ongoing cost of not being able to sign up to the better tariffs available in December.

Not using the correct reading to gain an advantage sounds a whole lot like fraud, no matter which party is responsible.

No consumer can give their old supplier a Final Reading on a transfer of supply. Yes, the supplier can bill up to that reading but for Final Billing purposes both suppliers are legally required to use an industry-validated reading. Why is this convoluted process necessary: some people like to save a few £s by giving a false reading; some people misread their meters, and some people just cannot be bothered to supply the requested reading to the new supplier. There is no fraud going on here: suppliers are just following the procedure laid down in their Supply Licences underpinned by industry procedures. There is an Agreed Readings Disputes process that can in certain circumstances be invoked. If you want more detail on how readings are validated then this other blog is worth a read.

https://octopus.energy/blog/secret-life-opening-meter-reading/

In truth, if you had paid the extra £34.66, how much would the difference have actually cost you?  My guess is very little.

phillw

Dolor said:
There is no fraud going on here: 

I was referring to you not providing accurate readings to take advantage of the cheaper price of your old tariff as well as SP issuing final bills too quickly for them to have received validated readings.

This is evident by SP issuing a replacement final bill when I emailed readings to them, if the original final bills were from validated readings then they would have refused. I was expecting resistance, but they asked me for the december readings from the YE bill and my own readings from the end of January. They cancelled the old final bill and issued a new one.

The SoLR process doesn't seem to work in the same way as a standard switch. If they waited for validation then they would have to pay compensation for late final bills.

Either Avro will get the correct reads that I supplied validated, in which case I would have been double billed or they will get SP wildly inaccurate estimates back and I would have been at least £3 worse off.

I don't want SP to get even a single penny more than they are entitled. This is moneysavingexpert, not moneygiveaway.

Gerry1

Dolor said:

phillw said:

Dolor said:
The reading used for a Final Bill can be based on an estimate. This is common if previous bills have been based on estimates; if a Final Bill estimate is used then both suppliers have to use it to open and close accounts.

The final bill was the first bill I received. The opening readings didn't match the ones I'd given them (which were the same as the ones that YE had on their final bill) & their web site never allowed me to enter a closing reading.

So I complained and they asked me for all the readings (which was the third time I'd given them opening readings) & they issued a new "final" bill.

At a time when energy prices are rising, it is often good to overpay the old supplier for energy that has not yet been consumed. Your new supplier can only charge for the daily standing charge until such time that the meter index passes the closing reading on the Final Bill. To put this into perspective, I once overpaid E.oN £70 for energy not yet consumed but I didn't pay Ovo anything but the standing charge for about 2 months. The actual difference in cost was not £70 but £2.34 as suppliers are not allowed to charge for the same energy twice. This is why there is an opening reading validation process.

Deliberately giving false readings to gain a pecuniary advantage sounds very close to fraud.  You could argue that you should be able to inflate your reading by up to 250kWh because The Mysterious Third Party is able to do the same, but two wrongs don't make a right.

If Ofgem were any good they'd mandate that a customer reading outside of the expected values range would trigger an 'Are You Sure?' message, followed up by a visit from a meter reader if the customer still said their reading was correct. That's the only fair way to do it.

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

RDolor said:

phillw said:

Dolor said:
The reading used for a Final Bill can be based on an estimate. This is common if previous bills have been based on estimates; if a Final Bill estimate is used then both suppliers have to use it to open and close accounts.

The final bill was the first bill I received. The opening readings didn't match the ones I'd given them (which were the same as the ones that YE had on their final bill) & their web site never allowed me to enter a closing reading.

So I complained and they asked me for all the readings (which was the third time I'd given them opening readings) & they issued a new "final" bill.

At a time when energy prices are rising, it is often good to overpay the old supplier for energy that has not yet been consumed. Your new supplier can only charge for the daily standing charge until such time that the meter index passes the closing reading on the Final Bill. To put this into perspective, I once overpaid E.oN £70 for energy not yet consumed but I didn't pay Ovo anything but the standing charge for about 2 months. The actual difference in cost was not £70 but £2.34 as suppliers are not allowed to charge for the same energy twice. This is why there is an opening reading validation process.

Deliberately giving false readings to gain a pecuniary advantage sounds very close to fraud.  You could argue that you should be able to inflate your reading by up to 250kWh because The Mysterious Third Party is able to do the same, but two wrongs don't make a right.

If Ofgem were any good they'd mandate that a customer reading outside of the expected values range would trigger an 'Are You Sure?' message, followed up by a visit from a meter reader if the customer still said their reading was correct. That's the only fair way to do it.

In my case, an accurate meter reading was provided to Ovo but for some reason the industry adjusted estimate was significantly higher than the reading given. Ovo offered two solutions: one, was an Agreed Readings Dispute which I was told might take up to 12 weeks. The second was that they offered to pay the extra cost between the two tariffs plus a £20 goodwill gesture. Nowhere have I suggested that anyone should give fraudulent readings for personal financial advantage.

 I think it highly unlikely as your much loved smart meter rollout programme gains momentum that anyone is going to change the present opening readings process. It will change by virtue of the fact that as more smart meters are deployed the DCC will validate all smart meter readings on transfer.