Buyer not happy - advice needed

TF03

Hi everyone, 
I'm in a bit of a pickle and really unsure what to do or where I stand. 
I recently listed a horse box for sale on eBay. Here is the description word for word. 

76k miles.
Professionally converted in 2010 and owned since.

3.5 tonne so can be driven on normal licence.

Lots of history and mechanically well looked after. Paint work is showing signs of age but in ok condition considering type and age of vehicle.

Can fit up to 16.2 hh or two smaller ponies.

Fresh clean MOT - expiry 31 January 2022

Air blower in cab only works on the lowest or highest setting.
£8000 ono
I received an offer from a buyer in Cumbria of £7400 which I accepted. No questions were asked, no inspection etc, just an offer to buy. Bear in mind, we are based in East Sussex, so quite a journey. 
So we agreed a date for them to travel down and collect and to be honest I was somewhat expecting it not to happen as I've had timewasters etc on eBay before. However the husband of the buyer turned up as planned. 
Between having the fresh MOT put on and the sale, the van had sat on the drive and wasn't used. When I started to get it ready on the day of collection, I noticed that the radio had stopped working (it has always worked perfectly). So when the buyer arrived, I explained that I can't understand why it happened and apologised, taking another £150 off the price as I'm sure it was probably something as simple as a fuse! We had a quick walk around the van, a look inside, started it up etc. The buyer didn't want to take it for a test drive and didn't even lift the bonnet/look underneath/inspect it in any great detail. One thing he did spot was the drivers locking mechanism probably needed replacing (I'm no mechanic, in fact it's all pretty alien to me) so we agreed a further £150 off. So the final purchase price was £7100. Everyone was happy, money paid via transfer, documents handed over etc. In all, the buyer was there probably about 30 mins.
Whilst he was there, I explained that we had hardly used it in the 11 years we had it, only putting 8000 miles on the clock and it's just sat around for pretty much 2 years only driving to be MOT'd and back. This didn't seem to put him off etc. I was very honest and upfront with everything. He said he was a motor dealer in a previous life so knew what to look for, and that they had found the vehicle on the conversion website in their gallery and had done all the checks they needed etc. 

So everyone seemed happy until I get a text about 2 hours later saying that he has broken down on the M25. He sent a photo so I knew he wasn't trying it on. Obviously I was shocked and a bit embarrassed thinking "oh god have I missed anything obvious". Turns out the alternator belt had snapped so they had to get that repaired overnight, so he had to stay in a hotel to carry on the next day. I said "I'm really shocked to hear that, I can only assume that where it's been sat around for so long it may have perished?". That was the best idea I could come up with after googling potential causes! 
The next day, another text. The headlights turn off when the indicator comes on! At this point I'm really thinking...what is going on here! I replied back "it has a fresh clean MOT and wasn't used since. If it had that problem, then it wouldn't have passed it's MOT?". 
So eventually they arrive back home in Cumbria and I get the inevitable, getting a mechanic to look at it this week. I didn't reply back to this. 

Today, I get a text message saying on top of the £595 they spent getting it home, the mechanic has had to replace 3 injectors today. He went back through the MOT history and apparently it was clocked in 2008. They are seeking advice.
As you can imagine, this absolutely shocked me. But they sent me a photo and I did go onto the gov website to check and yes, in 2009 at MOT it was listed as 174,865 and in 2010, 68,062 miles. I'm actually pretty heartbroken. When we purchased the van, it was from a professional conversion company who is still operating today. However we received no paperwork with it and this was back when well, checking online wasn't as well known or easy today. We didn't even bat an eyelid considering we were buying it from a reputable company. We've had no reason to check that far back online so we honestly didn't know this was the case! Obviously we purchased the vehicle after this, and since then we have saved every bit of paperwork for repairs/maintenance etc which was handed over when we sold it. The buyer didn't check this by the way! Just put it all in his bag. 

Now I'm fully expecting a demand for a refund or further action. To be honest, I'm really A, sad this has happened and B, worried! The van was sold in good faith, and only because our horse is too old to travel and it's just been sitting around! The buyer and I signed a copy each of a receipt each (the AA buyer/seller contract one) detailing the agreed negotiated price and why I had taken the extra £300 off. We have a copy each. It states "It is understood by the purchaser that the vehicle is sold as seen, tried and approved without guarantee."

Had it not been for the mileage issue, I would have been fairly confident sympasiting with them but stating, bought at distance without viewing or test etc. Sorry but I'm not paying anything.
However, where do I stand with the issue that it was clocked (before my ownership) but I didn't know about it myself? I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone eyes, or con someone. I'm honestly shocked about what's happened. We were even considering keeping the van at one point to convert back into a van! We had no idea about this. But part of me also thinks, that a buyer should do appropriate checks etc themselves prior to purchase, especially at distance?

How/what should I do. They are waiting for a response from me! 

Thank you

Bonniepurple

So an ex dealer didn’t check the MOT history until *after* he’d bought it?  Private seller - buyer beware.  You said what the condition is, your driving history of it, and the buyer didn’t check the paperwork.  Tell him that it was sold as seen, matter closed, and block his number.

TF03

Bonniepurple said:

So an ex dealer didn’t check the MOT history until *after* he’d bought it?  Private seller - buyer beware.  You said what the condition is, your driving history of it, and the buyer didn’t check the paperwork.  Tell him that it was sold as seen, matter closed, and block his number.

Even with the mileage issue? I feel awful about it. I mean, we were driving around it in with our horse so I’m angry that we got done in the first place! Naivety on our behalf certainly. 

But I do feel for them, I had no intention of screwing anyone over and obviously had we known, it would have been listed as such. However, I can’t afford to pay them any money back or if it goes further to challenge anything if they for example try to take it to small claims court. So as bad as I feel, they should have done their own checks. I know that I certainly do when I buy a vehicle nowadays. 

Grumpy_chap

TF03 said:

TF03 said:

He said he was a motor dealer in a previous life so knew what to look for, and that they had found the vehicle on the conversion website in their gallery and had done all the checks they needed etc. 

So everyone seemed happy until I get a text about 2 hours later saying that he has broken down on the M25. He sent a photo so I knew he wasn't trying it on.

He went back through the MOT history and apparently it was clocked in 2008. They are seeking advice.
As you can imagine, this absolutely shocked me. But they sent me a photo and I did go onto the gov website to check and yes, in 2009 at MOT it was listed as 174,865 and in 2010, 68,062 miles. 

The buyer and I signed a copy each of a receipt each (the AA buyer/seller contract one) detailing the agreed negotiated price and why I had taken the extra £300 off. We have a copy each. It states "It is understood by the purchaser that the vehicle is sold as seen, tried and approved without guarantee."

Former motor trader know what to do and did all the checks "they needed" before purchase.

How do you know he broke down?  I could send you a photo of me standing next to my car with the bonnet up and a gloomy face.  Does that prove I have broken down?

Why did the buyer (with the professional experience, remember) not do the MOT checks before purchase?  I can only assume they did not think it was needed.

Just refer to the receipt - you are private seller and that's that.  Do not enter into any further communications.

justworriedabit

Hello OP. You sound like a truly honest person. You are in luck if I can say that as the people you purchased from are still around.
Do you have a receipt and other paperwork I'm sure that will give you the mileage, etc. And he called himself an ex 'motor dealer.'
I'd be worried as I worry but IMHO, you have nothing to hide and by all accounts you are very honest. So direct them to the sellers you bought from with the evidence of the mileage.

Bonniepurple

TF03 said:

Bonniepurple said:

So an ex dealer didn’t check the MOT history until *after* he’d bought it?  Private seller - buyer beware.  You said what the condition is, your driving history of it, and the buyer didn’t check the paperwork.  Tell him that it was sold as seen, matter closed, and block his number.

Even with the mileage issue? I feel awful about it. I mean, we were driving around it in with our horse so I’m angry that we got done in the first place! Naivety on our behalf certainly. 

But I do feel for them, I had no intention of screwing anyone over and obviously had we known, it would have been listed as such. However, I can’t afford to pay them any money back or if it goes further to challenge anything if they for example try to take it to small claims court. So as bad as I feel, they should have done their own checks. I know that I certainly do when I buy a vehicle nowadays. 

Even with the mileage issue.  

Herzlos

TF03 said:

 in 2009 at MOT it was listed as 174,865 and in 2010, 68,062 miles.

What do the other MOT's say? What age is the van?
It may not have been clocked and the 2009 mileage was a typo somehow.

I find it hard to believe that a former car trader would travel that far to view a van without doing an HPI on it first. I'd also expect a former trader would expect some teething problems with a van being described as having sat around for a while such as a breakdown on a long journey. But he didn't give it a test drive so it's really on him.

If you care enough you can do an HPI on it yourself to see the history.

m0bov

It takes 30 sec to put the reg into history checker, anyone can do it. Its theirs now.

greyteam1959

Don't have any further communication with the person.
Block their number & move on 

TF03

Hi all. Thanks for your thoughts on this. 
Just an update. I replied back saying that
"we purchased from the company in good faith, if it was clocked it was done prior to our ownership and we had no idea. I stated I advertised the van accurately, and provided all the history and work we have done on it. We had a clean MOT put on (and it wasn't used in the month since) so it was deemed roadworthy. That they had said they'd done the checks etc prior to purchase. Reminded them it was a private sale and I'm not a trader or a mechanic and we both signed a receipt stating sold as seen". 

I was trying to draw a line underneath it. 

They have since replied back "yes but it's still not as described. I'm really sorry but I will be making a claim through eBay and a solicitor".

I really don't need this in my life right now. It's making me feel like a crook when I'm anything but. Whilst I can utterly sympathise, if they failed to do adequate checks  prior to purchase and I don't see why I should take the blame for that.

How should I respond to this, if at all? 

ilikedrawing

What wally spends over £7000 on a vehicle and doesn't spend a tenner on a vehicle check? Doesn't look at the paperwork...expects to drive hundreds of miles after its been sat around all the time aswell. He's made a load of mistakes and he's expecting you to make everything right.