Land registry restrictions - No one has any details of this due to age

Land_Registry

As davidmcn posts it’s about the here and now re the court and the evidence you produce to support them now dismissing it. I don’t deal with the courts but I’m guessing they’d need more than just you and Barclays saying you have no records now and know nothing more about it. They did at the time and the court issued the order after all and I don’t think the court has to be the one to prove anything here
Try @eggbox on Charging Order - the myth thread on MSE as may be able to offer more advice on this for you 

Mickey666

Razormatt said:

how can the court dismiss something they have no record of, the court came back to us already saying they had no records even with the claim number and they would have been removed from there systems after 6 years and distroyed after a further 3 years ? 

Do you mean "Barclays came back to us"?  You haven't mentioned that you've been to court.

A court will not have records of anything, how could they?  But that is not the point.  The point is that a court could ORDER Barclays to provide evidence for maintaining the restriction.  If no evidence was presented to the court to justify the restriction then the court could ORDER Land Registry to remove the restriction and they would comply.

I can understand Barclays position.  There is clearly a restriction in their favour but they cannot find any documents to explain why.  Imagine the difficulty in finding a Barclays employee willing to sign their name to lifting the restriction just because they cannot find the original documentation.  So the issue will just bounce around inside Barclays.

Your request to them for a letter stating they have no further interest in the property is perfectly reasonable but in reality is no different to asking them to remove the restriction themselves.  I would wait for their reply (not holding out much hope) and then write to Barclays CEO, on the basis that's where the buck stops and it should cut through all the passing around. 

If the CEO refuses to deal with the matter then explain that you will have no option but to take legal action.  Not that that will 'scare' them into action (their legal budget is likely to be a lot larger than theirs!) but it will show you are determined.  it would also show the court that you have tried everything you reasonably could to avoid going legal.  This might help you claim your costs if the court decides Barclays have been deliberately obstructive.  Unfortunately, you'll probably need formal legal advice to bring such a case to court, but if you don't pursue this issue it won't go away of its own accord.

Razormatt

Thank you for your help i really appreciate it 


@davidmcn obviously i will wait to see what Barclays come back with if anything but would you know how i apply to the court to have the restriction removed if i have to go down that route or am i better seeking out a solicitor that can help me with this?
 
@Land_Registry I have already been looking at the thread by eggbox and still slowly reading through the 451 pages 

@Mickey666 we contacted the court for more information as the restriction had a court case number and claim number on it when it was applied at Medway County Court. It was them that came back to us saying they have no information as the electronic information would have been removed after 6 years and paper documents are destroyed after a further 3 years, they searched under the case reference, address and my partner name and couldn't find anything 

davidmcn

Razormatt said:

@davidmcn obviously i will wait to see what Barclays come back with if anything but would you know how i apply to the court to have the restriction removed if i have to go down that route or am i better seeking out a solicitor that can help me with this?

Not in any detail, no, but as discussed above I expect the bank will get round to it before any court action is actually necessary, it's probably just in somebody's "too difficult to deal with" pile.

Mickey666

Razormatt said:

@Mickey666 we contacted the court for more information as the restriction had a court case number and claim number on it when it was applied at Medway County Court. It was them that came back to us saying they have no information as the electronic information would have been removed after 6 years and paper documents are destroyed after a further 3 years, they searched under the case reference, address and my partner name and couldn't find anything 

Ah, fair enough, I must have missed that, my apologies.

However, I'd say that can only help your case in the long run.  If Barclays can provide no evidence for this restriction and a previous court has also investigated it and found nothing then there seems very little justification in the restriction remaining on your title.  So the real issue is persuading LR to remove it, which as previously pointed out they can only do by an instruction from Barclays or a court (which is perfectly reasonable if you think about it).

A very frustrating situation for you but at least one that should be able to be resolved, albeit by wading through a lot of red tape.
Good luck with it!

Land_Registry

Remember you ask Barclays to release the charging order; the court to dismiss the order; or us to cancel/remove the restriction - all linked but very separate approaches 
If Barclays won’t release it then you have to present evidence to the court to enable them to dismiss their order - I’m merely pointing out that ‘no information’ is unlikely to be enough but that’s where legal advice would help you re charging orders, settlement and timescales 

Mickey666

Land_Registry said:

Remember you ask Barclays to release the charging order; the court to dismiss the order; or us to cancel/remove the restriction - all linked but very separate approaches 
If Barclays won’t release it then you have to present evidence to the court to enable them to dismiss their order - I’m merely pointing out that ‘no information’ is unlikely to be enough but that’s where legal advice would help you re charging orders, settlement and timescales 

If Barclays cannot provide any info then how can the OP present any evidence to the court?

I would hope the OP can ask the court to order Barclays to preset evidence to the court for keeping the restriction.  Give them X days for this but if they cannot then prove to the court that the restriction is justified then hopefully the court will order it to be removed/dismissed.

It surely cannot be reasonable for anyone to hold a restriction on a property without providing any evidence to support it?   

Land_Registry

Mickey666 said:

Land_Registry said:

Remember you ask Barclays to release the charging order; the court to dismiss the order; or us to cancel/remove the restriction - all linked but very separate approaches 
If Barclays won’t release it then you have to present evidence to the court to enable them to dismiss their order - I’m merely pointing out that ‘no information’ is unlikely to be enough but that’s where legal advice would help you re charging orders, settlement and timescales 

If Barclays cannot provide any info then how can the OP present any evidence to the court?
I would hope the OP can ask the court to order Barclays to preset evidence to the court for keeping the restriction.  Give them X days for this but if they cannot then prove to the court that the restriction is justified then hopefully the court will order it to be removed/dismissed.
It surely cannot be reasonable for anyone to hold a restriction on a property without providing any evidence to support it?   

Courts deal with the evidence put before them so I’d assume that would involve evidence of Barclays replies/stated position. But as stated it’s legal advice that’s needed here
As for what’s reasonable here it’s important to note that there was a debt first, a charging order second and only then was a restriction applied for by the creditor - so there was evidence. The issue now faced is how do you prove to the creditor or court that the debt no longer exists, the order can legally be dismissed and only then get it cancelled from the register. 

I’m not saying it’s right or easy but simply explaining the general facts that prevail in such matters. And from the OPs perspective the burden of proof currently sits with them. 

Razormatt

Update 

Spoken to Barclays yesterday they are still looking into it as they still cant find any information and said they will need up to 8 weeks to investigate it further 

Razormatt

Received a letter from Barclays today to say they are still looking into it but need more time, so still no further forward