Replacing a battery - compatibility question.

Jeepers_Creepers

Er, I wouldn't do that to my car anyways

neilmcl

Mickey666 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

AdrianC said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Hmmm....  That suggests replacing a modern whizzo battery with a normal one results in failure of the stop/start system.  Something for you to consider, @Jeepers_Creepers ?

Stop-start puts a lot of load onto a battery, and a normal wet lead-acid won't cope very well.

But the suggestion is replacing a fairly whizzy, fairly modern EFB one with a whizzier, moderner AGM one.

That was my point.  Perhaps fitting a normal wet battery might fool the stop/start controller into thinking the battery is out of condition, thus disabling the feature permanently.  I understand that it doesn't work if the battery isn't right.

That's interesting.  The stop/start on my car hasn't worked for the past year or so and this winter the battery has struggled to turn over the engine on very cold days.  No big deal as the battery at least 7 years old, so is obviously on the way out and it's on my mind to replace it but I keep forgetting now that the weather is warmer and the engine starts 'first turn'.

But I'd never heard of having to get a replacement battery 'coded' before now.  Presumably this makes it a non-DIY job, which seems somewhat ridiculous.  Is this really the case for all cars with stop/start systems?

It can be done with the right software, OBD2 reader and knowledge, all of which costs so usually cheaper to get it done by a professional, unless you know someone that you can borrow the kit for.

For example, to properly code (not just register) a battery for a BMW you would need 2 apps (Bimmercode and Bimmerlink) both costing £25 each and a reader, usually around £40, so all in you could DIY for around £90 but that does mean you could do your mates too for a small fee. To put that in perspective, an OEM battery replacement from my local BMW dealer would be £280, if I bought an OEM battery myself the cheapest is around £200. I could buy an alternative, branded battery, the best cheapest I've found is £125 so if I did the coding/registering myself it would be cheaper than getting the main dealer to do it. Although I can get a similar battery installed and coded by Halfords for around £170. There are choices.

tedted

get the same spec battery and it wont need coding

neilmcl

tedted said:

get the same spec battery and it wont need coding

It won't need coding but will require registering, they are different processes.

neilmcl

Mickey666 said:

neilmcl said:

tedted said:

get the same spec battery and it wont need coding

It won't need coding but will require registering, they are different processes.

Can you explain the differences?
I can understand the car systems might need to know what type of battery is installed but if replaced with an identical battery what is the need for 'registering'?  And what would be the consequence of not 'registering'?

Registration simply tells the Battery Management System (BMS) that you have a new battery and resets the "clock" so to speak along with all the relevant battery condition parameters. So, for the most part this is all you need to do with a new, identically powered battery. If you don't register the battery then the BMS thinks it's still running the old battery and therefore wont know the correct state of the new battery leading to possible onboard error states, disabled systems such as start/stop etc.

If you're installing a battery of a new type, higher power etc, then you need to give the BMS this information, and this is what coding involved. With a lot of industry based software the coding/registration goes hand in hand.

Biggus_Dickus

neilmcl said:

Mickey666 said:

neilmcl said:

tedted said:

get the same spec battery and it wont need coding

It won't need coding but will require registering, they are different processes.

Can you explain the differences?
I can understand the car systems might need to know what type of battery is installed but if replaced with an identical battery what is the need for 'registering'?  And what would be the consequence of not 'registering'?

Registration simply tells the Battery Management System (BMS) that you have a new battery and resets the "clock" so to speak along with all the relevant battery condition parameters. So, for the most part this is all you need to do with a new, identically powered battery. If you don't register the battery then the BMS thinks it's still running the old battery and therefore wont know the correct state of the new battery leading to possible onboard error states, disabled systems such as start/stop etc.

If you're installing a battery of a new type, higher power etc, then you need to give the BMS this information, and this is what coding involved. With a lot of industry based software the coding/registration goes hand in hand.

If the battery is replaced with a like-for-like unit (i.e.  exactly the same spec but not necessarily same manufacturer)  the Battery Management System will re-learn its parameters (in fairly short order) based on the performance of said replacement battery,...thus making all the ‘expert’ registration/coding somewhat superfluous.  Is that correct?

neilmcl

Biggus_Dickus said:

neilmcl said:

Mickey666 said:

neilmcl said:

tedted said:

get the same spec battery and it wont need coding

It won't need coding but will require registering, they are different processes.

Can you explain the differences?
I can understand the car systems might need to know what type of battery is installed but if replaced with an identical battery what is the need for 'registering'?  And what would be the consequence of not 'registering'?

Registration simply tells the Battery Management System (BMS) that you have a new battery and resets the "clock" so to speak along with all the relevant battery condition parameters. So, for the most part this is all you need to do with a new, identically powered battery. If you don't register the battery then the BMS thinks it's still running the old battery and therefore wont know the correct state of the new battery leading to possible onboard error states, disabled systems such as start/stop etc.

If you're installing a battery of a new type, higher power etc, then you need to give the BMS this information, and this is what coding involved. With a lot of industry based software the coding/registration goes hand in hand.

If the battery is replaced with a like-for-like unit (i.e.  exactly the same spec but not necessarily same manufacturer)  the Battery Management System will re-learn its parameters (in fairly short order) based on the performance of said replacement battery,...thus making all the ‘expert’ registration/coding somewhat superfluous.  Is that correct?

I suppose that may be the case with a self-learning BMS but the majority aren't, do you know which manufacturer's that do utilise this?

Biggus_Dickus

neilmcl said:

Biggus_Dickus said:

neilmcl said:

Mickey666 said:

neilmcl said:

tedted said:

get the same spec battery and it wont need coding

It won't need coding but will require registering, they are different processes.

Can you explain the differences?
I can understand the car systems might need to know what type of battery is installed but if replaced with an identical battery what is the need for 'registering'?  And what would be the consequence of not 'registering'?

Registration simply tells the Battery Management System (BMS) that you have a new battery and resets the "clock" so to speak along with all the relevant battery condition parameters. So, for the most part this is all you need to do with a new, identically powered battery. If you don't register the battery then the BMS thinks it's still running the old battery and therefore wont know the correct state of the new battery leading to possible onboard error states, disabled systems such as start/stop etc.

If you're installing a battery of a new type, higher power etc, then you need to give the BMS this information, and this is what coding involved. With a lot of industry based software the coding/registration goes hand in hand.

If the battery is replaced with a like-for-like unit (i.e.  exactly the same spec but not necessarily same manufacturer)  the Battery Management System will re-learn its parameters (in fairly short order) based on the performance of said replacement battery,...thus making all the ‘expert’ registration/coding somewhat superfluous.  Is that correct?

I suppose that may be the case with a self-learning BMS but the majority aren't, do you know which manufacturer's that do utilise this?

No;...I read about it a while ago. It didn't mention specific manufacturers as I recall...but it may have done.

Mickey666

neilmcl said:

Biggus_Dickus said:

neilmcl said:

Mickey666 said:

neilmcl said:

tedted said:

get the same spec battery and it wont need coding

It won't need coding but will require registering, they are different processes.

Can you explain the differences?
I can understand the car systems might need to know what type of battery is installed but if replaced with an identical battery what is the need for 'registering'?  And what would be the consequence of not 'registering'?

Registration simply tells the Battery Management System (BMS) that you have a new battery and resets the "clock" so to speak along with all the relevant battery condition parameters. So, for the most part this is all you need to do with a new, identically powered battery. If you don't register the battery then the BMS thinks it's still running the old battery and therefore wont know the correct state of the new battery leading to possible onboard error states, disabled systems such as start/stop etc.

If you're installing a battery of a new type, higher power etc, then you need to give the BMS this information, and this is what coding involved. With a lot of industry based software the coding/registration goes hand in hand.

If the battery is replaced with a like-for-like unit (i.e.  exactly the same spec but not necessarily same manufacturer)  the Battery Management System will re-learn its parameters (in fairly short order) based on the performance of said replacement battery,...thus making all the ‘expert’ registration/coding somewhat superfluous.  Is that correct?

I suppose that may be the case with a self-learning BMS but the majority aren't, do you know which manufacturer's that do utilise this?

A self-learning BMS sounds more sensible, but I've not seen any mention off such things (either way) in my handbook, but then it's a fairly old car now (2011 Merc E-class).  It was only when I recently started looking up battery replacement info that I discovered it has an 'auxilliary' battery as well somewhere within the dashboard - something to do with the stop/start system I understand, needed to maintain constant electrical power when the alternator stops generating and to avoid a sudden volts-drop when the main battery re-starts the engine.

But this is the first time I've heard about coding/registering a new battery.  Perhaps it won't be long before car batteries come with a microchip, like many Lithium rechargeables do these days (cordless tools, cameras etc).  Everything is becoming more and more complex these days and I've only just recovered from a £900 headlamp replacement last winter - now it's looking like I might need a trip to a garage just to change a battery.  Arrgh!!

tedted

you dont need to register a battery if it is the same spec, have done about fourteen in the last year and only one had to registered to the vehicle