County Court Claim - Help with Defence

stix13

Nosteratu1001 - I can't seem to attach a doc for you to read in an attachment. So I have pasted it below. The customer rep Emily cancelled all the other PCNs but not 29th, 30th and 11th July. 

Re: CRM CRM: 090154/CRM3045913
3 weeks ago at 3:41 PM
Fromcustomer.service@ncp.co.uk
ToVictoria
Dear Vicky,
Thank you for your e-mail dated 10/2/2021.
I am sorry to hear that you are now receiving solicitors letters regarding the issue you initially contacted us over back in 2016.
You are correct in that Emily Hicks has now left the company.
Unfortunately, we in the customer service team do not have access to the PCN (Parking Charge Notice) team system to assist you further on this matter. I have therefore forwarded your e-mail chain to the relevant PCN team.
If not done so already. I would also contact QDR solicitors and explain the situation to them.
I am sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Kind Regards
Sue

Customer Response Advisor

National Car Parks Ltd

From: 
Sent: 10/February/2021 12:53 (GMT)
To: Emily.Hicks@ncp.co.uk,customer.service@ncp.co.uk
Subject: Re: CRM CRM: 090154

Hi there Customer Service group
It looks like Emily Hicks may have left your admin team.
There has been a mistake made here as this was closed out and I did everything that was asked of me.
QDR solicitors harassment is incredibly upsetting.
I would appreciate if you could come back to me as soon as possible.
Thank you
Vicky 

On February 10, 2021 at 12:49 PM, Victoria > wrote:
Hi there Emily
In July 2016 I spoke to you and we had a number of conversations about a parking issue between 29th June and 19th July.  

We had follow up emails and I provided all the information that was needed.   See below

 I had follow up calls with and we agreed we had sorted the issue, I had made the payments that were needed and I didn't need to do anything more.
Three and half years later and QDR have sent me letters stating they are acting on behalf of NCP and telling me  I owe £914.00.  Please can you come back to me ASAP. #
Thank you
Vicky   

Begin forwarded message:

From: Victoria
Date: 8/17/2016
To: "Hicks, Emily" <Emily.Hicks@ncp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CRM

Hi Emily
Please could you come back to me regarding this?
Many thanks 

Vicky 
Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Aug 2016, at 18:40, Victoria <victoriao> wrote:

Hi Emily 

I am following up on my email below to see if if there is anything further you need from me.
The payment number for the parking charge £100 I paid is MP24779229
I haven't done anything further with these other parking charges, can I ignore them as discussed?
Many thanks and kind regards
Vicky 

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Aug 2016, at 17:46, Victoria <victoria> wrote:
Hi there Emily 
Thank you for your help on 27th July.  Apologies for the delay in my response, I have been off work a few days sick due to my pregnancy and I wanted to wait a few days to see if I received more parking fine notifications. 

Regarding the dash text, I have attached some examples that show I block booked dash -  for 20th to 23rd June and on the Same image you'll also see the dash payment on the 26th July when I realised the error had taken place.  Some texts I deleted though as I would just have too many in a list on a text.

I have also attached images from my statement as I have looked back through some online statements - the Dash payment on a statement is CNP Ringo-Go. Sometimes I have paid for a couple of days, sometimes longer. One of these is for 4 days.

I discussed with you the fact that on Friday 30th June I realised I had forgotten to pay my dash. This was actually on Friday the 1st July. It was the Friday before we were going on holiday. The days prior to this am sure I booked a dash, I'm sure it was for 2 days. I didn't include a third day on this booking because I was not sure if I would be working or talking that day as holiday too so I absolutely know that I forgot on Friday 1st July.  I have just paid this charge.

When we returned from holiday on 10th July, I knew I wanted to dash block book the whole 19 days -11th July through to 29th July so I wouldn't have to keep remembering 2 days here and 3 days there. 

I am not sure why these payments haven't gone through as both times I went through the same process on the Dash payment line. I honestly wouldn't have deliberately not paid or tried to cheat the system or something as I know it is not possible nor the correct thing to do. I didn't know the bookings had not gone through until I got home on 26th July and opened 3 separate parking notification, one of which was for 11th July. In a panic, I checked my online bank and could see that nothing had come out and immediately called up again to pay for the 3 remaining days taking me to the 19th July. 

I have detailed below the notifications the department you put me through to told me about, but I imagine there will more leading up to the 26th (when I realised what had happened). 

 LU 88538219.  29th 

LU 88538321.   30th

LU 88538401 1st July - one I have paid. 

LU 88553824 11/7 

LU88557723 15/7 

LU 88557767 14/7 

LU 88557880 13/7 

LU 88565255 19/7 

 I hope you will be able to help me with this. It is not an excuse at all but I am in the first trimester of a pregnancy and have been suffering horrendous morning sickness (NVP) which has affected many aspects of life at the moment. 

Thanks you for your help

Kind regards 

Vicky 

On 27 Jul 2016, at 15:18, Hicks, Emily <Emily.Hicks@ncp.co.uk> wrote:

Hello,

  Regarding our conversation earlier, your case reference number is CRM: 090154. As requested, please respond to this e-mail with all the dash confirmation texts that you have (especially ones for payments made for multiple days). I would also like you to send me information of all fines you are due to be issued: the dates of issue, and the PCN number.

Please respond to me with the required information and we will investigate this further.

 Kind regards,

 Emily Hicks

Customer Response Advisor

National Car Parks Ltd

 

T:  +44 (0) 3450 50 70 80 (opt. 5) 

E:  emily.hicks@ncp.co.uk

NML House, 61 High Street, Manchester. M4 1AZ

 

NCP Gateway: the first national account card for businesses www.ncp.co.uk/gateway

 

stix13

My main defence is that I was not driver of the vehicle, and unless the claimant can prove I was they can not win because NCP railway car park is covered by byelaws, right?
BUT 
I'm looking on the railway bylaws page on the gov.uk website, it says

Traffic signs, causing obstructions and parking

(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place.

 (4) In England and Wales

(i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.

(ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw

14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or under the direction of an Operator or authorised person.

and in the POC I have been sent by NCP (or QDR) they states 'The Defendant is the keeper of, or the driver named by the keeper..'.. 

According to  the byelaws they can pursue me and it doesn't matter whether I was the driver or not.....sorry I am trying to do research but I don't understand

Redx

The clue is in the word owner !!! Owner , not Driver , not keeper

The TOC can issue a penalty notice within 6 months using bylaws , this never happened

Also notice that it says Penalty , penalty is not parking , so penalty charge notice , not parking charge notice

There is no database of owners , the V5C clearly states that it is not proof of ownership

Penalty notices are dealt with in the magistrates court , not civil court !!

Johnersh

Your defence may include reference to the fact that the PPC cannot prove who was driving.

If you *were* the driver (and I don't suggest you should clarify the position on the forum) you cannot baldly say you were not in a defence.

I refer you to the statement of truth that needs to be signed and the contempt of court notice contained within it. Penalties for contempt range from fines to imprisonment (the latter being rare). 

No-one should make a bad position worse. 

nosferatu1001

That email chain doesn't state £100 would be enough, and you don't have the confirmation. It alludes to it - else why would you have paid at all and sent that chase? But it is not explicit, so you need to potentially walk someone through this

As above
A PENALTY, with a capital P, means a real penalty issued by a magistrates court. Money paid for a Penalty goes to the Treasury NOT to a private parking firm
So
No. They cannot hold YOU, the Keeper, liable as POFA does not apply - this is not relevant land
No, you could have potentially been held liable under Byelaws, but NOT by a private firm - only in mag court, and ONLY within 6 months. Thtat time has gone, yes?

stix13

So today I have news that is better than any Christmas!
Although I entered my defence for the QDR's claim for £914 and based it on the communication I had with NCP in 2016 (the email above) over the last 3 days I have basically hounded NCP customer service.  
I called them as I had not heard back from the PCN team as the customer service agent noted I would three weeks ago (in email above). I dealt with an agent that raised another case. I continued to call them, email and pursue them this week (bit like QDR does..lol). I told them they were failing in their customer service responsibilities, . I had followed their instruction precisely in 2016 and yet they had passed my details to unscrupulous QDR, known to harass. I demanded to deal with a manager.  A manager did take over the case and although there is no way of dealing with PCN team themselves he liaised with a PCN team manager. Today they told three of the tickets on the £914 had been closed out 2 years ago - one from 2016 was left on there but the team were going through PCNs this old and removing them from peoples files. I asked for email confirmation this time! 
He asked me to email the details of all the claims QDR are making against me - the four in total for £1,877
The customer service manager called me back this evening and they are cancelling all of the PCNs against me. 

nosferatu1001

That's great news but, until you get a notice that the claims are discontinued you have to keep on as if they are live.  

Umkomaas

Very good result. Now, once you have confirmation in writing, consider the following:

SUING FOR A BREACH OF THE DATA PROTECTION ACT?

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act/

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/05/motorist-awarded-900-for-data.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/08/cp-plus-lose-data-protection-claim.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2018/04/parking-awareness-do-not-contest-535.html

Coupon-mad

Brilliant news - another several NCP ones bite the dust!

D_P_Dance

 consider the following:  citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/SUING FOR A BREACH OF THE DATA PROTECTION ACT?

Indeed, they have wasted you time, now waste theirs, read this

citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/