Collection only - reasonable time limit?

Beenie

We have sold an item (collection only and payment to be made on collection).
Buyer is now saying they can't collect due to covid travel restrictions. Turns out buyer is not local. 
We don't mind a week or so delay but are there Ebay restrictions to be taken into account? We don't want this to drag on indefinitely.

Rantband

Non essential travel is against the law in this lockdown.

Beenie

Yes, that's true. And that's why we stipulated collection only and gave our location.
The problem is that the bidder wasn't in a position to buy/collect (which is their fault).
My query really is what is the Ebay time limit? What if all auctions ended like this? Ebay will need their platform fee and as a business might not find it acceptable to wait 4/5 months to get their cash. 

soolin

Beenie said:

We have sold an item (collection only and payment to be made on collection).
Buyer is now saying they can't collect due to covid travel restrictions. Turns out buyer is not local. 
We don't mind a week or so delay but are there Ebay restrictions to be taken into account? We don't want this to drag on indefinitely.

You have 30 days only to open a NPB case, if it goes past that then you pay all your ebay FVFs regardless of whether buyer completes sale or not.  If buyer is not local they would be allowed to collect if it is in their line of business (ie they were buying from you to resell or to use for business) otherwise it looks like the restriction on travel will be listed on 29th march (possibly) 

Spoonie_Turtle

Beenie said:

Yes, that's true. And that's why we stipulated collection only and gave our location.
The problem is that the bidder wasn't in a position to buy/collect (which is their fault).
My query really is what is the Ebay time limit? What if all auctions ended like this? Ebay will need their platform fee and as a business might not find it acceptable to wait 4/5 months to get their cash. 

eBay will take their fee whether you've had the buyer pay and collect or not.  If you open a case against them, they can pay by PayPal then claim INR and you'll have to refund and lose the PayPal fee because you haven't posted it to them, unless you're on managed payments.  It depends how much you trust your buyer that they will collect as soon as they can, otherwise you should probably look into cancelling the sale ('problem with buyer's address' would be strangely applicable here!) so eBay don't take their fee.

soolin

As per Spoonie_Turtle's response ebay took their fees at the point of sale , they are not waiting months for their fees they get them instantly and you are the one waiting for months for payment .

My own personal view is that ebay is not a suitable venue for collection only items until such time as a seller is on managed payments, although in this instance I would not be overly worried about a scam as most scammers wouldn't wait more than a day or so to collect if they used paypal. The collection only situation is covered here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4949988/collection-only-items/p1

Beenie

What are managed payments? We are occasional sellers, not tradesmen or running a business. I think we've sold around 7-8 items in total over the years; all were big and not possible to post e.g. a canoe and oars. We didn't have a problem with any payments.

UpstartRaven

I used to wonder how problematic this issue was but then was presented with significant evidence of it happening. I guess it's not universal but it still happens enough that I wouldn't sell collection items on eBay and neither would a lot of people.

Managed payments are eBay transitioning to not using PayPal and handing money themselves through a service provider. Basically, instead of paying sellers directly through PayPal, you'll pay eBay, then eBay pay the sellers less their listing and payment handling fees. I'm not sure I fully understand it, but from what Soolin says above, it looks like it might (!) solve the PayPal on collection frustration, where a buyer pays through PayPal, collects the item then claims it back as INR since there's no proof of delivery.

However, would any electronic payment still facilitate this scam? Or do eBay/Adyen have procedures in place to better monitor seller protection? Couldn't a seller unscrupulously say the buyer collected the item so as to exempt them from INR? Once one loophole closes, another immediately opens.

I don't know but I hope eBay have something up their sleeve.

soolin

UpstartRaven said:

I used to wonder how problematic this issue was but then was presented with significant evidence of it happening. I guess it's not universal but it still happens enough that I wouldn't sell collection items on eBay and neither would a lot of people.

Managed payments are eBay transitioning to not using PayPal and handing money themselves through a service provider. Basically, instead of paying sellers directly through PayPal, you'll pay eBay, then eBay pay the sellers less their listing and payment handling fees. I'm not sure I fully understand it, but from what Soolin says above, it looks like it might (!) solve the PayPal on collection frustration, where a buyer pays through PayPal, collects the item then claims it back as INR since there's no proof of delivery.

However, would any electronic payment still facilitate this scam? Or do eBay/Adyen have procedures in place to better monitor seller protection? Couldn't a seller unscrupulously say the buyer collected the item so as to exempt them from INR? Once one loophole closes, another immediately opens.

I don't know but I hope eBay have something up their sleeve.

EBay issue QR codes for collection only items, the buyer and seller exchange scans (I’m not entirely sure how it works sorry) and that protects against an INR claim. The QR codes are issued even to those not on managed payments, but DON’T protect against an INR if a claim is opened on PayPal, hence it being no good to anyone who isn’t on managed payments. 

However that assumes sellers have correctly set up a collection only item, with collection ONLY and no other postage option available. Unfortunately a quick glance through listings generally suggest that many sellers don’t actually set the listing up correctly. 

Beenie

We're set up as collection only. I don't think the bidder is a scammer, just a bit thoughtless and hadn't thought the purchase through properly.

UpstartRaven

soolin said:

EBay issue QR codes for collection only items, the buyer and seller exchange scans (I’m not entirely sure how it works sorry) and that protects against an INR claim. The QR codes are issued even to those not on managed payments, but DON’T protect against an INR if a claim is opened on PayPal, hence it being no good to anyone who isn’t on managed payments. 

However that assumes sellers have correctly set up a collection only item, with collection ONLY and no other postage option available. Unfortunately a quick glance through listings generally suggest that many sellers don’t actually set the listing up correctly. 

That sounds a good start. I hope that things become evident to many soon as it appears to solve a lot of issues.