Frequent MOTs

sheslookinhot

A few years ago, I was negotiating with a dealer to buy a Mercedes E class, from distance. I asked the salesman to walk round the car and highlight every issue. There was a round unusual mark on the rear window. We tried to find a reason for it. It was the only issue, paint, bodywork, wheels were perfect. Doing due diligence I checked MOT history expecting one that the dealer had carried out pre-sale. There was 6 previous MOT’s on the car. Turns out the car had been owned by a Chauffeur company in London, but traded in for an S Class in Sunderland. The previous owner signed to say it had not previously been used in the PHV business. The winds mark was then obvious. The car was mint, but obviously the mileage was deemed suspect.

Grumpy_chap

sheslookinhot said:

I was negotiating with a dealer to buy a Mercedes E class,
There was a round unusual mark on the rear window.
The previous owner signed to say it had not previously been used in the PHV business. The winds mark was then obvious. The car was mint, but obviously the mileage was deemed suspect.

Are you saying that the mileage on this particular car was suspect because the previous owner signed "never a cab" which turned out to be untrue, so what else had this particular individual been untruthful about?

OR, are you suggesting that all former mini-cabs etc are likely to have incorrect mileage displayed?  I don't see that all cab drivers can be dishonest.

sheslookinhot

Grumpy_chap said:

sheslookinhot said:

I was negotiating with a dealer to buy a Mercedes E class,
There was a round unusual mark on the rear window.
The previous owner signed to say it had not previously been used in the PHV business. The winds mark was then obvious. The car was mint, but obviously the mileage was deemed suspect.

Are you saying that the mileage on this particular car was suspect because the previous owner signed "never a cab" which turned out to be untrue, so what else had this particular individual been untruthful about?

OR, are you suggesting that all former mini-cabs etc are likely to have incorrect mileage displayed?  I don't see that all cab drivers can be dishonest.

I’m not saying anything other than the car I was about to buy had an MoT every 6 months since new and had appeared to be used as a chauffeur driven car. The mileage may have been correct, but as used as a PHV, could not be guaranteed by the seller. I don’t know the individual so have no idea about untruthfulness.

Regarding your last point, I’m not suggesting anything of the sort. Is that what you think ?

Grumpy_chap

sheslookinhot said:

I’m not saying anything other than the car I was about to buy had an MoT every 6 months since new and had appeared to be used as a chauffeur driven car. The mileage may have been correct, but as used as a PHV, could not be guaranteed by the seller. I don’t know the individual so have no idea about untruthfulness.

Regarding your last point, I’m not suggesting anything of the sort. Is that what you think ?

It is not just your comment, but others too.  There was a recent thread where someone had purchased a Mercedes S-Class (I think) and later found it to be a former mini-cab so thought they should have between 10-20% off whatever they paid.  It is a logic I don't understand, as extra wear and tear in the rear is visible at purchase so taken into account in the agreed price, then that thread went on to imply the reason was linked to obviously incorrect mileage.  

I think we can safely assume that when a car leaves Mercedes, the milometer is calibrated the same whether the car is used as a company car, private car, Presidential use, Royalty, or as PHV / Mini-cab.  So, any suggestions that PHV does not have reliable mileage as a rule is a comment on the honesty of mini-cab drivers.

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it.  On the one hand linking "used as a PHV" as a reason that "the mileage could not be guaranteed", yet not accepting that creates an inherent link to thinking all mini-cab operators are dishonest.

The one thing that does possibly affect a PHV value is the likelihood of a lot of idling causing engine wear over and above the recorded mileage, but that is different to saying the mileage is incorrect.

AdrianC

If you think about it, clocking a taxi with 6mo MOTs from new would be one heck of a lot of work - it'd need to have been clocked many, MANY times (before each test...) not to break the chain of mileage on the previous tests.

And then just think about all those new cars on 2yr service intervals and 3yr PCPs with limited mileage... Big benefit in a haircut there...

sheslookinhot

Grumpy_chap said:

sheslookinhot said:

I’m not saying anything other than the car I was about to buy had an MoT every 6 months since new and had appeared to be used as a chauffeur driven car. The mileage may have been correct, but as used as a PHV, could not be guaranteed by the seller. I don’t know the individual so have no idea about untruthfulness.

Regarding your last point, I’m not suggesting anything of the sort. Is that what you think ?

It is not just your comment, but others too.  There was a recent thread where someone had purchased a Mercedes S-Class (I think) and later found it to be a former mini-cab so thought they should have between 10-20% off whatever they paid.  It is a logic I don't understand, as extra wear and tear in the rear is visible at purchase so taken into account in the agreed price, then that thread went on to imply the reason was linked to obviously incorrect mileage.  

I think we can safely assume that when a car leaves Mercedes, the milometer is calibrated the same whether the car is used as a company car, private car, Presidential use, Royalty, or as PHV / Mini-cab.  So, any suggestions that PHV does not have reliable mileage as a rule is a comment on the honesty of mini-cab drivers.

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it.  On the one hand linking "used as a PHV" as a reason that "the mileage could not be guaranteed", yet not accepting that creates an inherent link to thinking all mini-cab operators are dishonest.

The one thing that does possibly affect a PHV value is the likelihood of a lot of idling causing engine wear over and above the recorded mileage, but that is different to saying the mileage is incorrect.

I never said the mileage was incorrect. This was a thread about frequent MoTs. The MB dealer who I was negotiating to purchase the car from informed me that whilst the mileage was probably correct, they could not be 100% sure so therefor could not guarantee it. No where did I say it was a mini cab or refer in any way to mini cab drivers. Did you used to be one ?

Enjoy your day and don’t feel you need to get involved in everyone’s comments. Get out and enjoy life.

Grumpy_chap

sheslookinhot said:

This was a thread about frequent MoTs. 

Correct, and one of the common reasons for a vehicle to have more frequent MOTs is use as a PHV which is, I assume, why you made the reference about your E-Class which you mentioned was once a PHV.  

For reference, PHV covers "Any vehicle that seats up to eight passengers and is available for hire with a driver" so includes black-cabs, taxis, mini-cabs, UBER, chauffer driven limousine, executive car hire.

sheslookinhot said:

The MB dealer who I was negotiating to purchase the car from informed me that whilst the mileage was probably correct, they could not be 100% sure so therefor could not guarantee it. No where did I say it was a mini cab or refer in any way to mini cab drivers. Did you used to be one ?

I have never been, and am not currently, a PHV driver of any kind.  Not that there is anything wrong with being so.
By mentioning the car was a PHV, then that indirectly refers to the drivers.  As above, mini-cab / PHV is pretty much the same thing.

You twice linked the vehicle being a PHV / mini-cab as indicating incorrect mileage:

sheslookinhot said:

Turns out the car had been owned by a Chauffeur company in London
obviously the mileage was deemed suspect.

sheslookinhot said:

The mileage may have been correct, but as used as a PHV, could not be guaranteed 

Given that we can safely assume that Mercedes do not ship cars with a magic "PHV detection mode" that works out use as a mini-cab (or chauffeured limousine, all the same thing) that then records some differently scaled mileage, the link between use as a PHV and the mileage must be deemed suspect can only imply intervention by the operator of the PHV.  If not the driver, then the business owner.  It is not correct to cast dishonesty on all members of a profession.

OR, do you find some way that the former PHV / mini-cab has incorrect mileage but that is attached only to the vehicle and not linked to the operator of that vehicle?

Londoner_1

Back in summer i was looking at a 2014 skoda 1.8 superb se,  looked really good on autotrader, £5.5k and only 77k miles, MOT was suspect as 2 years was missing, car was in Walsall, spoke to small time dealer who said car may have been on private plate but had fsh. 

I made plans to have  alook, but then enquired with main skoda dealer, to my surprise it was last serviced at 129k in jul 2019, and it drove 10k in the first 6 months of being sold new in 2014, its obvious it was a taxi.  The car was not sold until 3 months later, when it turned up on ebay in same area, look slike the dealer was trying a private sale at a cheaper price, it did not sell and it eneded up with the original small dealer in Walsall where it got sold i think in oct.

Roll on into winter and now, the same car is for sale in Hounslow, near Heathrow for £5.5k with 78k miles. 

Car looks mint from outside, obvious giveaway is driver site bolster is torn, car has been clocked or engine changed.

Grumpy_chap

Londoner_1 said:

a 2014 skoda 1.8 superb se,  £5.5k and only 77k miles, MOT was suspect as 2 years was missing, 

to my surprise it was last serviced at 129k in jul 2019, and it drove 10k in the first 6 months of being sold new in 2014, its obvious it was a taxi.  

A good bit of detective work to identify the clocking of the vehicle.
I am not sure how you know it was obviously a taxi?
10k miles in 6 months in not in any way extraordinary.  Until lockdown, my daily commute was 140 miles (round trip), so over 15k miles in 6 months.  The 130k miles in 5 years is only 26k miles per year.

born_again

sheslookinhot said: dealer who I was negotiating to purchase the car from informed me that whilst the mileage was probably correct, they could not be 100% sure so therefor could not guarantee it. 

I think you will find NO dealer will say that the mileage is guaranteed to be correct.