Consumer Unit Change & Bonding Upgrade Query

retepetsir

As of today we've had the Consumer Unit upgraded in the house we've just moved to, in order to change from the original 80's fuse board to an 18th Edition CU that meets the latest spec.
I have previously undertaken the 17th Edition BS7671 exam and assisted with the previous install at our last house - I also work for a UK DNO so have some idea of the regs. I may have undertaken some of the work on this myself if I had the time. 

I didn't have much chance to check in on the work until the electrician had finished due to my own work but I have a couple of questions, having taken a closer look once they'd left:

1) I'd picked a fairly standard dual RCD British General board as it meets all of our requirements. The quote was given as a 10-way unit which I know comes as a 'fully loaded' product. They've fitted a 10-way unit but have removed the spare MCBs, which limits any future proofing. Should I be asking for these seeing as we've paid for a 10-way board? We would know which would be spares so that isn't an issue. As far as I'm aware its not against regs to leave spares, or is it good practice to replace them with blanking plates?

2) The lighting circuits have all been placed on one RCD, whereas previously I've always alternated. For example, upstairs lighting and downstairs sockets on one, and vice versa on the other. One RCD has 3 MCBs, 2 x 6A (lights) and 1 x 32A Ring Final, the other has 4 MCBs - Ring Final (32A), Immersion (16A), Cooker (32A) and Garage (16A). The RCDs are rated to 63A each so that seems quite uneven and with limited diversity.

3) They've upgraded the meter tails and bonding to the latest standard, but haven't replaced the seals for the main cutout fuse nor meter. Should these have been sealed again? 

Am I just being too picky?!

FreeBear

You paid for a fully populated CU, I would expect to have all of them left in place even if some are unused.

Yes, the seals should have been replaced - Next time your meters are read, there could be accusations that the meter has been tampered with and/or you've been stealing electricity. Got any spare seals and crimp in your van ?

retepetsir

Thanks for your reply. I wonder if I can ask for the spares back...

Risteard

I'm sorry, but that advice is nonsense in my opinion. You paid for an as-fitted product. As such you have no entitlement to protective devices which were not used within the installation. Personally I always fit blanks on spare ways as otherwise people complain about them not working despite not being connected to anything.

I have to say that it was a very poor spec for the work in my opinion. I would not consider British General for a distribution board personally. As a minimum I fit Type A RCDs throughout - Type AC RCDs are not generally appropriate. Also I fit a Type 2 SPD as standard. I nearly always achieve RCD protection through individual RCBOs for each protected circuit rather than a couple of RCCBs these days also. As I stated, I believe the spec was poor.

homersimpson246

In answer to your questions:

1. 10way simply means that there are 10 spaces available to use, they don't have to be populated with circuit breakers, however, they do have to have blank plates in them.  If not then you can probably stick you fingers through onto the live busbar.

2. They have probably put both lighting circuits on the same RCD due to the presence of a borrowed neutral between ground and first floor on the stairs, this is quite common in older properties and sadly prevents you putting the lighting circuits on alternative RCD's as the imbalance causes them to trip.

3.  The electrician shouldn't have cut the seals on the meter and won't be able to seal them back up, only the DNO (or equiavalent) or meter operator can do this.

Overall what you have is probably fine although as above British General wouldn't be my choice for a consumer unit.

Risteard

Borrowed neutrals are prohibited. If they are there then the circuits would need to be combined into one circuit and not simply protected by the same RCCB. 

George_Michael

retepetsir said:

1) I'd picked a fairly standard dual RCD British General board as it meets all of our requirements. The quote was given as a 10-way unit which I know comes as a 'fully loaded' product. They've fitted a 10-way unit but have removed the spare MCBs, which limits any future proofing. Should I be asking for these seeing as we've paid for a 10-way board? 

I would say that it's all dependent on exactly how the estimate/quote was worded and itemised.
If it simply stated something like "To supply and fit one 10 way consumer unit" then this is exactly what the electrician has done and I don't see that there was any requirement for them to leave any spare MCB's.

However, if the estimate or receipt was fully itemised and there was a separate entry for the CU showing the price for this then as you paid the going rate for a unit complete with the 10 MCB's, irrespective of them not being required for the installation, you had paid for them so they belong to you.

IMO, it's no different to buying a washing machine and installation and the machine comes with new filling hoses.
When the fitter comes to fit it he finds that there are already good quality hoses on the old washer so he reuses them and decides to take the new hoses with him when he leaves.

retepetsir

Risteard said:

I'm sorry, but that advice is nonsense in my opinion. You paid for an as-fitted product. As such you have no entitlement to protective devices which were not used within the installation. Personally I always fit blanks on spare ways as otherwise people complain about them not working despite not being connected to anything.

I have to say that it was a very poor spec for the work in my opinion. I would not consider British General for a distribution board personally. As a minimum I fit Type A RCDs throughout - Type AC RCDs are not generally appropriate. Also I fit a Type 2 SPD as standard. I nearly always achieve RCD protection through individual RCBOs for each protected circuit rather than a couple of RCCBs these days also. As I stated, I believe the spec was poor.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not really refuting the spec provided as it is much better than what was previously in place, although maybe it did mean their markup was potentially higher. We wanted to get some better protection in quickly before we undertook more work to the house, and with kids too just to be on the safe side. I also didn't ask for an SPD to be fitted, working on the DNO side I'm yet to see an event where they have proved that useful.

I was provided a quote including a 16-module/10-way unit and they knew about the future plan for an additional circuit, along with my background/job so I thought it was a little strange to remove MCB's from a loaded board that came as-supplied if there was no risk with user error. I'm not going to call them out if one of the spare MCBs 'isn't working'.

May I ask where you are based and what you would quote for a new CU with RCBOs on all required circuits, SPD and 20m of 10mm bonding to utilities? We received some ridiculous quotes for the work, including some with RCBOs on all circuits but we are in the South East. The RCBO quote was with a Contactum board.

The quality of the new BG range seems pretty good to me compared to other CU's I've seen previously. We don't really have anything complicated in terms of size of property or wiring, the only other thing being an outdoor circuit for a pump house but I've kept that separate with appropriate grading and protection. 

Time to get my 18th Certificate. 

retepetsir

homersimpson246 said:

In answer to your questions:

1. 10way simply means that there are 10 spaces available to use, they don't have to be populated with circuit breakers, however, they do have to have blank plates in them.  If not then you can probably stick you fingers through onto the live busbar.

2. They have probably put both lighting circuits on the same RCD due to the presence of a borrowed neutral between ground and first floor on the stairs, this is quite common in older properties and sadly prevents you putting the lighting circuits on alternative RCD's as the imbalance causes them to trip.

3.  The electrician shouldn't have cut the seals on the meter and won't be able to seal them back up, only the DNO (or equiavalent) or meter operator can do this.

Overall what you have is probably fine although as above British General wouldn't be my choice for a consumer unit.

What manufacturer would you pick? I've looked at so many, Schneider, Contactum, MK, etc. They all seem to have their quirks and good/bad bits. Hager seemed very good but couldn't get any in stock. 

Edit: To add, no borrowed neutrals as I'd checked this when replacing some light switches. . 

Ectophile

What were they doing cutting the meter seals in the first place?

I know electricians regularly pull fuses, even though they are not supposed to.  But missing meter seals will look suspicious.

retepetsir

Ectophile said:

What were they doing cutting the meter seals in the first place?

I know electricians regularly pull fuses, even though they are not supposed to.  But missing meter seals will look suspicious.

They upgraded the meter tails to 25mm, I assume the meter connections need to be accessed for this.