Tickets for 45 and 55 seconds!

swazzle2000

My husband has received 2 parking tickets, on consecutive days, for dropping off lab work at a dental practice. 

He's parked on a neighbouring pub car park, but approached in such a way that he couldn't see the sign. It was dark, the sign was blue and he's colour blind so it didn't stand out. Either way, he was there for 45seconds on one day and 55 seconds on the other. 

It's an IPC carpark. Obviously the pub is closed right now so no one is using the carpark anyway, and even if he had seen the sign, he couldn't have gone into the pub in the first place. 

He's appealed already, saying that he was delivering medical goods and that he couldn't see the sign, but they've rejected the appeal. We're trying to appeal on the IAS website, but it's saying it doesn't recognise his reg number or parking charge number. We can't get back in touch with the company that have sent out the fine because they only let you appeal once, and the system is automated, so we can't contact anyone.

What in earth do we do? There's no way we're paying two, £100 fines for less than 2 minutes of 'parking infringement'.

I believe there should be a grace period to read the sign and it says this in the IPC Code of Practice, but now we can't get in touch with the company to complain, so what do we do?

Many thanks. 

Fruitcake

What is the name of the PPC?
Is there any Contact Us information on their web page?
What were the reasons given for the PCNs? 
Neither of the PCNs were fines.

swazzle2000

Fruitcake said:

What is the name of the PPC?
Is there any Contact Us information on their web page?
What were the reasons given for the PCNs? 
Neither of the PCNs were fines.

It's Euro Parking Services, and the notices were for Parking for Patrons whilst on the premises only.
The website has a general enquiry form, a PCN appeal section and the number that's automated. I haven't phoned the number but husband says it just takes you straight through to payment. 
https://europarkingservices.com/

They're based in Birmingham, where we live also.

Fruitcake

Normally we don't recommend trying an IAS appeal, but that has changed recently because several appeals have been successful, possibly because they are too short staffed to do a proper job.

I suggest you try again over a period of several days, a week at the most, then complain to the IPC if it still doesn't work.

If you do manage to do an IAS appeal, be very specific with your evidence and make sure you thoroughly respond very carefully to each requirement.

Normally we would suggest a landowner complaint, but if the driver was not visiting the business/pub itself, then that might be counter productive.

Do get pics of the site and signage before attempting an appeal if possible. Do this on foot!.

swazzle2000

Thank you. Sorry, I did read your newbie FAQ before posting but I wasn't sure how to go about it if the pub is closed. We did message them first and they just said to call the number on the sign. 
I said we should just keep appealing and complaining and hopefully something will come out of it. 

Johnersh

It'll be hard for them to sustain this, surely?

It takes more than 55secs to get out and read a sign, even had it been seen. The time periods are likely to short to even deem that that defendant, saw, read and understood the terms. 

swazzle2000

Johnersh said:

It'll be hard for them to sustain this, surely?

It takes more than 55secs to get out and read a sign, even had it been seen. The time periods are likely to short to even deem that that defendant, saw, read and understood the terms. 

That's what I said! There must be a grace period to enter and exit if you've changed your mind. This is why we think it's so ridiculous. 

Coupon-mad

Does he not know that he can park on a single or double yellow on street to unload medical equipment? 

They are there to ALLOW unloading (for up to 20 minutes) and a Local Authority CEO, if one walked along that road, would have to observe the car to discount unloading (exempt activity) for at least five minutes and even then he can appeal and win, when genuinely able to prove his activity was only unloading.  This is what the on-street lines and bays are for.

Why on earth do people drive into private car parks?  It is selfish parking and downright unnecessary!  So frustrated I seem to point out what yellow lines allow, at least once a month here!  Why do people think they mean no stopping... gaaaahhh!  Stay ON STREET where exempt activity is safe and allowed.  Stop aiming for stupid car parks, that is the last place to stop when delivering things.  He now has this nightmare firm pursuing him for years.

swazzle2000

Sso we sent them an email saying that they should provide a grace period as per the terms and conditions, and this is the response they gave? Surely if he's left the site and no longer considering the terms and conditions of the site, then they shouldn't be trying to impose a charge on him because he's left the site within so many seconds??

Le_Kirk

Do they mean "left the site" as in "walked away from the retail outlet that the car park is for and went to another shop/bank/pub?" OR got in the car and left the site, i.e. car park?

swazzle2000

Coupon-mad said:

Does he not know that he can park on a single or double yellow on street to unload medical equipment? 

They are there to ALLOW unloading (for up to 20 minutes) and a Local Authority CEO, if one walked along that road, would have to observe the car to discount unloading (exempt activity) for at least five minutes and even then he can appeal and win, when genuinely able to prove his activity was only unloading.  This is what the on-street lines and bays are for.

Why on earth do people drive into private car parks?  It is selfish parking and downright unnecessary!  So frustrated I seem to point out what yellow lines allow, at least once a month here!  Why do people think they mean no stopping... gaaaahhh!  Stay ON STREET where exempt activity is safe and allowed.  Stop aiming for stupid car parks, that is the last place to stop when delivering things.  He now has this nightmare firm pursuing him for years.

Whilst I agree with most of this message, the carpark in question also has a cafe at the back of it. So it's not a typical 'car park'.
Also, with all the pubs being shut at the moment, and this one usually having at least one car on it, one can be forgiven thinking it was OK to stop for a few seconds to deliver some medical equipment.