Provider charging a fee to withdraw money from ISA NOT in terms and conditions when I opened the acc

Bighen10

I am also in this same position; I have read page 6 of the terms and conditions but unfortunately this was not highlighted to me at the time I joined the scheme (or should that be scam). Because of COVID I have a massively reduced income, I appreciate that Shepherds Friendly are protecting their product but who is protecting my investment?   

If all the information above is valid then how or when will my account ever make a profit – if the next financial crash or another COVID outbreak or even a workers strike should occur then could or would  Shepherds Friendly apply a market value reduction on the grounds of unfavourable market conditions.

As far as I am concerned this is a scam – I have been caught and I I feel it is my duty to inform anyone else of the expected returns on any Shepherds Friendly Stocks and Shares ISA.

How is the investors supposed to know when their “investment” is in negative or positive status? this is essential for the public to be able to make an informed decision of when to withdraw funds.

Alexland

Bighen10 - as dunstonh has already commented on the other thread you may wish to edit your posts to avoid risking accusation of libel. If the MSE forum team get contacted by solicitors (as sometimes happens) then such threads may get completely removed which would be a shame as they may otherwise be helpful for others to understand the MVR impact if they google search they provider's name in advance of applying.

This product is being operated on a legal basis although many of us would not consider it best for our or possibly anyone's circumstances.

eskbanker

Bighen10 said:

As far as I am concerned this is a scam – I have been caught and I I feel it is my duty to inform anyone else of the expected returns on any Shepherds Friendly Stocks and Shares ISA.

How is the investors supposed to know when their “investment” is in negative or positive status? this is essential for the public to be able to make an informed decision of when to withdraw funds.

If you want transparency, why would you invest in a friendly society?

If you want predictable returns, why would you invest at all?

Bighen10

Thank you for your wise but not requested comment eskbanker.

That really helps me a lot mmmmmmmmmmm

Clarity is what I was requesting, the very high focus on the scheme positives however not so much on the negatives, yes, I received 40+ pages of bumf but unfortunately my eyes were somewhat focused on the wonderful risk free stocks & share isa that would give big returns!!

I’ll request further wise and seemingly useless comments from you eskbanker if I feel the need

Thrugelmir

Bighen10 said:

Clarity is what I was requesting, the very high focus on the scheme positives however not so much on the negatives, yes, I received 40+ pages of bumf but unfortunately my eyes were somewhat focused on the wonderful risk free stocks & share isa that would give big returns!!

Not the "free" £225?  Investing is better suited to a 10 year plus time horizon. Stocks and shares carry considerable risk. Seems you didn't bother to study the bumf at all. As highlighting the downsides is part and parcel of marketing the product. 

dunstonh

As far as I am concerned this is a scam – I have been caught and I I feel it is my duty to inform anyone else of the expected returns on any Shepherds Friendly Stocks and Shares ISA.

It is not a scam and making the allegation that it is puts you at risk of legal action. Don't take that lightly as the board frequently gets approached by solicitors asking for posts to be taken down due to legal reasons.    You are making a false allegation and don't have a leg to stand on.

How is the investors supposed to know when their “investment” is in negative or positive status? this is essential for the public to be able to make an informed decision of when to withdraw funds.

Firms are required to publish data on their with profits fund which you are free to read.    The fund is not as transparent as unit linked investments due to the smoothing mechanisms involved.  However, lets be clear that without the smoothing, your value would still be lower than what you paid in with that particular investment fund.

If all the information above is valid then how or when will my account ever make a profit – if the next financial crash or another COVID outbreak or even a workers strike should occur then could or would  Shepherds Friendly apply a market value reduction on the grounds of unfavourable market conditions.

Markets go up more than they go down.     The fund is a 10-15 year investment which is more than a typical economic cycle.  So, profit would be expected in most cases in that period.

I am also in this same position; I have read page 6 of the terms and conditions but unfortunately this was not highlighted to me at the time I joined the scheme (or should that be scam). Because of COVID I have a massively reduced income, I appreciate that Shepherds Friendly are protecting their product but who is protecting my investment?   

Scottish Friendly are protecting other investors.  Not themselves.   You are taking the money out after a loss event that has yet to recover.     Why should other investors cover your loss when it is you that is taking the money out early.

The crux of the issue here is that you bought a product you did not understand and are now making libellous allegations because of your lack of understanding.

Bighen10

You are clairvoyant Thrugelmir you are correct when you say, “Not the "free" £225?” not sure why you are following with a question mark though? Surely you know???

Thank you for your wise comment, wish I had come here earlier then I would have got all the worldly advice & wisdom I needed

Really stumped at how you know that the “friendly society” highlighted the downsides of this particular product.

Keep at it you’ll get there eventually - Bighen10 over & out :-)

eskbanker

eskbanker said:

Bighen10 said:

As far as I am concerned this is a scam – I have been caught and I I feel it is my duty to inform anyone else of the expected returns on any Shepherds Friendly Stocks and Shares ISA.

How is the investors supposed to know when their “investment” is in negative or positive status? this is essential for the public to be able to make an informed decision of when to withdraw funds.

If you want transparency, why would you invest in a friendly society?

If you want predictable returns, why would you invest at all?

Bighen10 said:

Thank you for your wise but not requested comment eskbanker.

That really helps me a lot mmmmmmmmmmm

Clarity is what I was requesting, the very high focus on the scheme positives however not so much on the negatives, yes, I received 40+ pages of bumf but unfortunately my eyes were somewhat focused on the wonderful risk free stocks & share isa that would give big returns!!

I’ll request further wise and seemingly useless comments from you eskbanker if I feel the need

OK, let me rephrase then - products like this aren't like more conventional investments that allow you to track and monitor the value of your holding on a regular basis, so are inherently unsuited to those hoping for transparency, or clarity if you prefer.  They only update the underlying value annually, via statements that advise the bonuses, and, separately, apply MVRs - in this case the 20% MVRs announced at the start of the pandemic were discussed on here but this has subsequently been reduced to 10%.  Anyone looking to sell needs to get a quote and it's at that stage you find out exactly what they'll pay you.

Obviously we can all explain how this really isn't a scam but nobody on here can wave a magic wand and increase the value of your investment, so you still only have two choices, i.e. to stick with it until the MVRs are removed or to sell before then, accepting the reduction.

Bighen10 said:

wish I had come here earlier then I would have got all the worldly advice & wisdom I needed

Hopefully a lesson learned - had you posted on here before investing in this product, you would indeed have been given valuable cautionary info about how it compares with its many better competitors.

Bighen10 said:

Really stumped at how you know that the “friendly society” highlighted the downsides of this particular product.

When did you invest?  They've been clear about the (occasional) application of MVRs for many years - for example, the product front page from nine years ago in 2012 includes "In poor investment conditions we may apply a Market Value Reduction (MVR) (please see the ISA Key Features document)" and that six-page key features document amplifies:

How do I cash in or withdraw money from my ISA? 

You have access to your ISA at any time. The minimum amount you can withdraw at any one time is £100. There are no fixed penalties applied to a withdrawal but we may apply a market value reduction (please see section ‘What is a Market Value Reduction’ (MVR))

[...]

What is a Market Value Reduction (MVR)? 

If our investment returns have been low we may use a Market Value Reduction to make sure you do not leave the fund with more than your fair share of its assets. This is to protect plan holders who still have money in the fund, but it may mean that you receive less than you expected.

masonic

Bighen10 said:

Thank you for your wise comment, wish I had come here earlier then I would have got all the worldly advice & wisdom I needed

I guarantee if you came here before investing and received our worldly advice and wisdom you wouldn't be in the situation you now find yourself. What's more, we would have been able to put you off without using false and libellous claims about the provider.

colsten

Bighen10 said:

 unfortunately my eyes were somewhat focused on the wonderful risk free stocks & share isa that would give big returns!!

Going forward, you should definitely avoid whoever told you about a risk free stocks and shares ISA. No such thing exists.