BW Legal Letter, confused about what stage I'm at!

nosferatu1001

If you have a set aside to do, you have two grounds you can use to get one. One is a must, the other is at discretion of the court. CPR13.2 basically says if you dont serve it to a good address, then the set aside MUST happen. CPR13.3 is "any other reason" and is at the discretion of the court. 

I'd call them and get the on the wire on the phone. You need this info today. You also need the VRM attached to the PCN, PCN ref etc as you have nothing from them. 

RidgebackPlanter

Painful 30 minute call with Karen at BWL means I have finally gotten somewhere. They have 2 files open on me covering 3 separate PCNs. The initial letter from them is in relation to the one PCN with a CCJ attached (payment they're asking for £260) and the second is for the 2 additional PCNs (payment they're asking for £300). The CCJ and all correspondence on both thus far has been going to the random address that I am not linked to. I've updated my address with BWL (for the second time) and have requested the following: 

- I only be contacted in writing for anything pertaining to either case.
-  BOTH cases be put on hold for 30 days. Karen at BWL has done this (despite them telling me via email it wasn't possible due to the CCJ). At first she said BWL weren't able to put them on hold without a reference number from whomever I was seeking debt advice from (they specified a few charities and citizens advice and asked which I was using). I then specifically quoted  "PAP for debt claims 2017" and she was able to put them on hold immediately. (thanks to this forum!)
- that all original paperwork be re-posted to my correct address. 

I can now call the CCBC back with an actual reference number for the CCJ and request the set aside. Based on the above post I'll be using CPR13.2. 
I can also now begin the process as per post #2 of the newbies stickie once I receive the paperwork from BWL (although I already have the reference numbers so can make a start sooner). 
I've also recorded the entire call and will be keeping it with all of my written documentation of the case(s) thus far. 

QUESTION 1: What happened to mean all of the paperwork regarding the CCJ and all 3 PCNs stopped being sent to a relevant address (probably gotten from the DVLA) and then started being sent to an address that wasn't linked to me at all? What tracking system are they using? Surely it broaches some GDPR laws.

QUESTION 2:  The DVLA have said it takes them 30 days to be able to sent out a full Keeper record of address changes. BWL are only putting a hold on these cases for 30 days. The maths doesn't add up and my cases will stop being on hold by the time the DVLA get back to me, any solutions?

Umkomaas

If there are outstanding CCJs, what are BWL 'putting on hold', and for what purpose(s)?

nosferatu1001

You will also use cpr13.3! Don't use just one ground when two can work. 

1) not a clue. Ask them why they started using that address. 

2) you're NOT holding off on the ccj for 30 days!,!!! You WILL be filing your set aside within 5 more days so maybe give bwl a call AND email and suggest they CONSENT to set aside on the basis they sent the claim form to an address that was not good. You WILL get a contested set aside, and their client will have to pay £255 back to you, so this is prudent. They will refuse , but it means they can't complain you didn't offer. 

3) who cares about the other two? They know they've got a duff address, KNOW, meaning if they file at old address, you absolurley
sue 
their
Pants
off 
stop thinking you're beholden to others right now. You're driving this process, and you make it work. 

RidgebackPlanter

Haha thank you! No I'm not holding off on the CCJ. I meant the other case because for that one having a DVLA update will hopefully help with my defense. The CCJ set aside will be happening asap regardless of the DVLA paperwork.

Coupon-mad

Are the 2nd and 3rd PCNs about the same car park, same car, same details just different PCN dates?  Let's the the CCJ set aside first but it is worth us & you knowing if the other two are about the same facts and alleged breach, then there is a doctrine called 'cause of action estoppel' that means they should have brought the whole case in one claim. 

But DON'T point that out yet in case at the CCJ set aside they make an application to re-file the first claim and add the two other PCNs.

Johnersh

Marshall & Rankine v Maggs - if the defendant has *never* lived at the service address, it cannot, by definition, be a last known address.
https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2006/20.html&query=marshall+and+rankine+and+maggs&method=boolean
It's paras 67-70 and 100-105 you need. 

So that's a mandatory set aside, do not pass go. Since that's a Court of Appeal authority I wouldn't muck about suggesting there's any discretion here. 

 It wasn't like it was difficult to find the o/p - they found you when they thought they had a £200+ judgment to enforce, didn't they? They'll need a very good reason to explain the address they chose to use.

I'd also be arguing that the claim died when it wasn't served properly and that the claim form is dead. They haven't sought to extend time for service. 

If they want to pursue it, they will need to (and still can) issue fresh proceedings.Make them do it properly. There shouldn't just be directions to set aside with the claim continuing, but a set aside for want of service within 4 months of issue. The claim failed at the first hurdle by not being served within 4 months (cpr 7.5 refers). It's dead. 

If they issue anew, there's nothing to stop the judge choosing to hear multiple related cases at the same time or formally consolidating them, which would tidy it up procedurally. 

RidgebackPlanter

ANSWERS: @Coupon-mad yes all 3 PCNs are for the same residential carpark. The car was parked as a guest, although there is no proof as the resident in question made the offer verbally. But all 3 PCNs are the same carpark the earliest is May 2016, then Jan 2017 and the latest one May 2017 (which is the one that has not gotten to CCJ stage). 

@Umkomaas I agree, I don't really understand what has been put on hold other than the second claim (which is for the earlier 2 PCNs) but she said both cases had been put on hold for 30 days.

QUESTIONS: @Johnersh @nosferatu1001 am I right in thinking the CRP 7.5 claim with the 4 month timeframe would be part of discretionary set aside claim under 13.3? Or would it also be a part of the mandatory set aside claim, in addition to CRP 13.2?

Also, I received the N244 form on Tuesday, I'm desperately trying to find time to properly put together my defence. How long do I have? I've seen 5 days mentioned on this forum but can't find that anywhere on the actual form or in the CCBC email. 

Coupon-mad

It's mandatory in your case.  Wasn't his sentence from @Johnersh clear enough?

So that's a mandatory set aside, do not pass go. 

Why are you trying to do a defence, given that is not what you need to submit with a CCJ set aside application?  There are examples in the NEWBIES thread, so calm down and search it for 'CCJ' and read that bit and those two examples.

RidgebackPlanter

MORE QUESTIONS: I haven't received any particulars of the CCJ claim from the CCBC, or from BWL. Is that normal? I have particulars on the original PCNs only but not whatever happen in October 2018 when the CCJ was issued. I submitted an SAR to BWL but all they provided was the date of the CCJ and address it was linked to. 

On further digging, this "random" address to which BWL served the CCJ is linked to a former housemate! A person I was living with at the address the first PCNs were sent to (although we'd moved out by the time they were sent). This feels like a big clue although I still can't figure out how BWL got it (I will ask next time I call them). My housemate and I shared an internet contract 2015/16 before moving out. He continued this contract. Could this be how BWL traced me to his address in 2018?! Bizarre. Is this something I should mention in my set aside request?