Cifas marker removal

joseffoliver97

Hello,

I am looking for some advice if possible please. The following happened in July 2020:
I use Gumtree and eBay fairly regularly and I had made a sale on Gumtree which was paid via bank transfer in to my Santander account. I then transferred this to my Monzo account as I use this for small payments and bills etc. I can not remember the specific amount but it was definitely double figures and I believe around £20. I noticed a few days later that I could no longer draw money out from my Santander account and then received a letter a few days later telling me that my account had been closed for fraud prevention. I was completely shocked at the time but did some Googling and saw that this type of thing is not uncommon amongst the big banks. Having read numerous forums etc I decided I would just use Monzo as my main account.

I had forgotten about all of this when I was offered my dream job for Admiral in November 2020 and was due to start in January 2021. I had received a contract from them and was looking forward to starting in January. Unfortunately I was then contacted by their recruitment department who said that I had a Cifas marker and this would need to be addressed. I explained I had no knowledge of this and didn't even know what Cifas was at the time. I did some research and was completely baffled, so I submitted a DSAR to them and received back the details. It said Category 6 First Party Fraud and I was only aware what it was relating to when I read July 2020 from Santander bank it clicked.

Unfortunately Admiral have withdrawn their offer of employment for me and this has caused genuine anxiety and distress about my future. Firstly I have been denied my dream job but I am now really stressed about the next 5 and a half years as I will not be able to get insurance, credit, mortgages etc it is a very worrying situation for what I feel is a mistake on their half.

Does anyone know how I would go about getting this marker removed please?

eskbanker

You'll need to log a formal complaint with Santander, although the fact that you failed to do so at the time of the account closure will hamper your chances of persuading them to remove the marker.

DCFC79

OP you should have spoke to Santander about this. Do the banks not send a letter saying you will have a CIFAS marker ?

mab3000

joseffoliver97 said:

Hello,

I am looking for some advice if possible please. The following happened in July 2020:
I use Gumtree and eBay fairly regularly and I had made a sale on Gumtree which was paid via bank transfer in to my Santander account. I then transferred this to my Monzo account as I use this for small payments and bills etc. I can not remember the specific amount but it was definitely double figures and I believe around £20. I noticed a few days later that I could no longer draw money out from my Santander account and then received a letter a few days later telling me that my account had been closed for fraud prevention. 

You mentioned this about what happened before the account closure. Had you had any problems with any of the buyers on eBay or Gumtree prior? Anyone saying that they hadn’t received the goods from you for example?

Alex9384

I don't get it... How are so many people getting CIFAS markers for just selling something on Gumtree or eBay. What accounts are these payments usually coming from? Why recipients are punished for it?

joseffoliver97

Thank you for the comments so far, I had had no previous complaints with Gumtree or eBay.  Reading between the lines on my DSAR it was because I immediately transferred from the Santander to the Monzo account but I'm not sure why this is an issue, it is a small amount of money and certainly shouldn't trigger fraud prevention surely?  With reference to Alex's comment, I'm not too sure, perhaps it came from a dodgy account but then why should I be punished for that?  As you said there seems to be a lot of people in a similar situation recently whereas I had never even heard of Cifas before I found out I had a marker and did some research.

Ed-1

joseffoliver97 said:

Thank you for the comments so far, I had had no previous complaints with Gumtree or eBay.  Reading between the lines on my DSAR it was because I immediately transferred from the Santander to the Monzo account but I'm not sure why this is an issue, it is a small amount of money and certainly shouldn't trigger fraud prevention surely?  With reference to Alex's comment, I'm not too sure, perhaps it came from a dodgy account but then why should I be punished for that?  As you said there seems to be a lot of people in a similar situation recently whereas I had never even heard of Cifas before I found out I had a marker and did some research.

Because it's not an offence to receive the proceeds of crime but you commit the offence of money laundering as soon as you transfer it.

Alex9384

Ed-1 said:

Because it's not an offence to receive the proceeds of crime but you commit the offence of money laundering as soon as you transfer it.

But how are you supposed to know that you received the proceeds of crime?

Ed-1

Alex9384 said:

Ed-1 said:

Because it's not an offence to receive the proceeds of crime but you commit the offence of money laundering as soon as you transfer it.

But how are you supposed to know that you received the proceeds of crime?

Exactly. You may unwittingly commit the offence, which is why how it looks is important. It's best to avoid transferring funds received from untrusted sources straight away as it risks appearing as if you are involved in the fraud. Had it been left in the account, you would not have a CIFAS marker as no offence has been committed by you and the bank could ask you questions about the deposit. As soon as you are suspected of money laundering, the bank can no longer engage with you under the tipping off rules as they would then commit an offence. So their default is CIFAS and close accounts to end the matter. You then need to persuade them with evidence that you were an unwitting victim in this.

Alex9384

Ed-1 said:

But how are you supposed to know that you received the proceeds of crime?

Exactly. You may unwittingly commit the offence, which is why how it looks is important. It's best to avoid transferring funds received from untrusted sources straight away as it risks appearing as if you are involved in the fraud. Had it been left in the account, you would not have a CIFAS marker as no offence has been committed by you and the bank could ask you questions about the deposit. As soon as you are suspected of money laundering, the bank can no longer engage with you under the tipping off rules as they would then commit an offence. So their default is CIFAS and close accounts to end the matter. You then need to persuade them with evidence that you were an unwitting victim in this.

What if the money that you have received is then paid out as direct debit by your credit card company. 

Ed-1

Alex9384 said:

Ed-1 said:

But how are you supposed to know that you received the proceeds of crime?

Exactly. You may unwittingly commit the offence, which is why how it looks is important. It's best to avoid transferring funds received from untrusted sources straight away as it risks appearing as if you are involved in the fraud. Had it been left in the account, you would not have a CIFAS marker as no offence has been committed by you and the bank could ask you questions about the deposit. As soon as you are suspected of money laundering, the bank can no longer engage with you under the tipping off rules as they would then commit an offence. So their default is CIFAS and close accounts to end the matter. You then need to persuade them with evidence that you were an unwitting victim in this.

What if the money that you have received is then paid out as direct debit by your credit card company. 

That's less suspicious in regards to looking like you are deliberately laundering the proceeds of crime. As opposed to £x of fraudulent funds in, £x of fraudulent funds out.