Can a company charge me 30% of the cost of purchase to return an item?

jon81uk

wandster said:

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?
Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

thank you.  The items haven't been handled by us.  We've not even received them.  They are still with the bathroom company (T Patton) that ordered them from Crosswater.   So they are still in the original packaging, and in storage at T Patton.
I am more than happy to cover any return costs.  It's the fact that it's such a significant amount that is hard to understand, 

So the retailer had to make a special order for you from the manufacturer? I'm not sure if that changes things? I know made-to-order can't be returned.

wandster

MattMattMattUK said:

wandster said:

I tried to discuss the 30% with the owner and my consumer rights but they stated " I can assure you we adhere to all regulations and our terms and conditions are clearly stated on all emailed quotations and order confirmations."  

Some retailers are unaware that their terms and conditions are not able to override consumer rights legislation. What their terms and conditions say is irrelevant if it breaches or conflicts with legislation. However many take the view that their Ts and Cs have primacy, which is wrong, but makes enforcing things much more difficult. 

wandster said:

But £450 seems crazily excessive to return the items to a single supplier - regardless of Crosswater's fees.  Worse still, the store manager said it would take 6-8 weeks to return the items and process the refund!  

In terms of their costs, it would not be that unusual, 20% of that cost is VAT. The original £427 you quoted is £356 ex VAT, the freight on large items such as shower panels (usually over 2m in length) would be expensive to ship back, so it would easily bring that down to say £300, which could well be the restocking fee from the manufacturer, or the restocking fee from the manufacturer could be 10-20% and they double it so that they still make some profit, even on a returned order. 

Are you planning on changing to a different size, or just cancelling the whole order? They might be more open to negotiation if you were to change to a different size shower, one that you were more comfortable with, rather than just cancellation. Failing that you are entitled to a full refund, you can ask your car provider to issue a chargeback (or S75), which might get you the money back, it does not stop the retailer undertaking legal action, which you would likely win, but that could be a long drawn out process. 

thanks Matt.  That's very helpful.  I think T Patton's approach is exactly that - they just point to the 30% restocking fee in their t&c's, and therefore that's all that matters to them.  Their tone from the outset has focused on that line in the t&c's, and haven't shown any willingness to discuss/ clarify my customer experience or rights. 

I understand those freights costs too.  I don't know exactly where the items are supplied from, but I think it's Dartford.  So we are talking maybe 50 miles along the M11 + M25.

We do need to replace them, but T Patton again, weren't willing to discuss waving/ reducing the 30% restocking fee.  They said, the fee comes mainly from the fees that Crosswater charge.  So there's no reason we would want to repurchase from two companies (T Patton and Crosswater) who don't appear to have an interest in their customers.

Jenni_D

jon81uk said:

wandster said:

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?
Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

thank you.  The items haven't been handled by us.  We've not even received them.  They are still with the bathroom company (T Patton) that ordered them from Crosswater.   So they are still in the original packaging, and in storage at T Patton.
I am more than happy to cover any return costs.  It's the fact that it's such a significant amount that is hard to understand, 

So the retailer had to make a special order for you from the manufacturer? I'm not sure if that changes things? I know made-to-order can't be returned.

Sorry but I think you're misinformed ... made to order is irrelevant and is merely the seller's/manufacturer's business model; what matters is if the goods have been made to the customer's specification. Goods chosen from a set of options offered by the seller are not made to the customer's specification - they are the seller's specification.

neilmcl

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?

Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

Only if they provided that information in a durable means, which by the sounds of it they haven't.

neilmcl

wandster said:

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?
Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

thank you.  The items haven't been handled by us.  We've not even received them.  They are still with the bathroom company (T Patton) that ordered them from Crosswater.   So they are still in the original packaging, and in storage at T Patton.
I am more than happy to cover any return costs.  It's the fact that it's such a significant amount that is hard to understand, 

Well in that case there are no returns costs. You didn't purchase from Crosswater, your contract is with the seller and it matters not how much or how difficult it may be for them to return them and get their refund. You're entitled to a full refund, end of, and it should be forthcoming no later than 14 days.

I suggest you speak to your bank regarding a chargeback.

It's all covered in Section 34 of the CCRs.

unholyangel

jon81uk said:

wandster said:

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?
Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

thank you.  The items haven't been handled by us.  We've not even received them.  They are still with the bathroom company (T Patton) that ordered them from Crosswater.   So they are still in the original packaging, and in storage at T Patton.
I am more than happy to cover any return costs.  It's the fact that it's such a significant amount that is hard to understand, 

So the retailer had to make a special order for you from the manufacturer? I'm not sure if that changes things? I know made-to-order can't be returned.

Made to order isn't exempt from the right to cancel, only goods that are made to the customer's specifications or clearly personalised. 

Made to order just means the goods aren't manufactured until they're ordered. It doesn't necessarily mean they're bespoke. 

jon81uk

Jenni_D said:

jon81uk said:

wandster said:

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?
Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

thank you.  The items haven't been handled by us.  We've not even received them.  They are still with the bathroom company (T Patton) that ordered them from Crosswater.   So they are still in the original packaging, and in storage at T Patton.
I am more than happy to cover any return costs.  It's the fact that it's such a significant amount that is hard to understand, 

So the retailer had to make a special order for you from the manufacturer? I'm not sure if that changes things? I know made-to-order can't be returned.

Sorry but I think you're misinformed ... made to order is irrelevant and is merely the seller's/manufacturer's business model; what matters is if the goods have been made to the customer's specification. Goods chosen from a set of options offered by the seller are not made to the customer's specification - they are the seller's specification.

unholyangel said:

jon81uk said:

wandster said:

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?
Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

thank you.  The items haven't been handled by us.  We've not even received them.  They are still with the bathroom company (T Patton) that ordered them from Crosswater.   So they are still in the original packaging, and in storage at T Patton.
I am more than happy to cover any return costs.  It's the fact that it's such a significant amount that is hard to understand, 

So the retailer had to make a special order for you from the manufacturer? I'm not sure if that changes things? I know made-to-order can't be returned.

Made to order isn't exempt from the right to cancel, only goods that are made to the customer's specifications or clearly personalised. 

Made to order just means the goods aren't manufactured until they're ordered. It doesn't necessarily mean they're bespoke. 

Yes I am aware I phrased it poorly. It should be tailor-made or personalised.

Tokmon

wandster said:

I recently purchased a Crosswater walk-in shower and basin from a local bathroom retailer, T Patton (tpattonbathrooms.co.uk/).  I couldn't visit the store so I researched online, and then placed the order over the phone.  I found out it hard to get a sense of size/ proportions when you can’t see the items, but due to covid you cannot visit T Patton’s showroom. That contributed to me making a mistake with my room calculations and I had to return these items  to replace with slightly smaller.  

I called to cancel the items but they were already on their way to the store.  T Patton said it would cost me a 30% ‘restocking fee’ to return them. This comes to £427 to return the items to Crosswater.  The restocking fee is mentioned in their t&c’s.   I guess I have to accept it’s my fault for not having read the t&c’s thoroughly.   So I hadn't seen the mention that "all goods returned will incur a minimum of 30% handling charge."  The scary part is that it says a 'minimum' so in theory, T Patton can charge whatever they want?!

I’m disappointed that  the store manager didn’t mention in it in any of the 4 or 5 phone calls we had when discussing the order - or even at the time of placing the order. The store manager has since said that this is in their contract because brands like Crosswater charge them high fees to return the items.  The items are still with T Patton, so they are fully packaged as the day they arrived, and in storage at their store. 

Is there anything I can do, as £427 is a really large amount to charge for returning items that I haven't even physically received.  I don't mind paying an appropriate cost to return the items so that they are not out of pocket. I appreciate that it is inconvenient for them, and retailers aren't having it easy at the moment.   But £450 seems crazily excessive to return the items to a single supplier - regardless of Crosswater's fees.  Worse still, the store manager said it would take 6-8 weeks to return the items and process the refund!  

The store manager said he would discuss the fees with Crosswater as they have a good relationship and may reconsider them, but I then received an email direct from one of the owners of T Patton to point out that it was in their t&c’s, and they evidently did not what to discuss anything but the minimum 30% charge. 

I guess I’ve learned several lessons here.  Firstly, not to think very carefully before purchasing from T Patton or Crosswater.  But more importantly, to  read every inch of the t&c’s and not to purchase from any retailer with such a high restocking fee.  I don’t know whether I have any consumer rights under distance selling regulations but T Patton were not willing to discuss this. Any advice much appreciated? Thank you.

Surely the biggest lesson here is to make sure you fully research an item and it's specifications before placing an order. If you haven't even received the items yet and have decided they aren't right then you could have decided this before ordering and saved all the hassle for everyone involved.

Aylesbury_Duck

Looks like a slam dunk case for a full refund to me.  The goods aren't personalised, were bought at a distance and haven't ever been in your possession!  What TPatton's terms are with their supplier is none of your concern so if they incur re-stocking costs, that's their cost of doing business online.

wandster

Tokmon said:
Surely the biggest lesson here is to make sure you fully research an item and it's specifications before placing an order. If you haven't even received the items yet and have decided they aren't right then you could have decided this before ordering and saved all the hassle for everyone involved.

I agree with you.  That is definitely a 3rd lesson.  The miscalculations were due to my naivety.  I've never done a renovation before.  So when I measured the space, I didn't consider plasterboard, plaster, tiling etc.  Also the window had to be repositioned - only slightly but with the basin I had ordered, the depth meant it then overlapped the window by 5cm!  They weren't massive miscalculations but significant enough to create long term challenges if I stuck with those items.  I will definitely be much wiser if I come to renovate again.