Can a company charge me 30% of the cost of purchase to return an item?

wandster

I recently purchased a Crosswater walk-in shower and basin from a local bathroom retailer, T Patton (tpattonbathrooms.co.uk/).  I couldn't visit the store so I researched online, and then placed the order over the phone.  I found out it hard to get a sense of size/ proportions when you can’t see the items, but due to covid you cannot visit T Patton’s showroom. That contributed to me making a mistake with my room calculations and I had to return these items  to replace with slightly smaller.  

I called to cancel the items but they were already on their way to the store.  T Patton said it would cost me a 30% ‘restocking fee’ to return them. This comes to £427 to return the items to Crosswater.  The restocking fee is mentioned in their t&c’s.   I guess I have to accept it’s my fault for not having read the t&c’s thoroughly.   So I hadn't seen the mention that "all goods returned will incur a minimum of 30% handling charge."  The scary part is that it says a 'minimum' so in theory, T Patton can charge whatever they want?!

I’m disappointed that  the store manager didn’t mention in it in any of the 4 or 5 phone calls we had when discussing the order - or even at the time of placing the order. The store manager has since said that this is in their contract because brands like Crosswater charge them high fees to return the items.  The items are still with T Patton, so they are fully packaged as the day they arrived, and in storage at their store. 

Is there anything I can do, as £427 is a really large amount to charge for returning items that I haven't even physically received.  I don't mind paying an appropriate cost to return the items so that they are not out of pocket. I appreciate that it is inconvenient for them, and retailers aren't having it easy at the moment.   But £450 seems crazily excessive to return the items to a single supplier - regardless of Crosswater's fees.  Worse still, the store manager said it would take 6-8 weeks to return the items and process the refund!  

The store manager said he would discuss the fees with Crosswater as they have a good relationship and may reconsider them, but I then received an email direct from one of the owners of T Patton to point out that it was in their t&c’s, and they evidently did not what to discuss anything but the minimum 30% charge. 

I guess I’ve learned several lessons here.  Firstly, not to think very carefully before purchasing from T Patton or Crosswater.  But more importantly, to  read every inch of the t&c’s and not to purchase from any retailer with such a high restocking fee.  I don’t know whether I have any consumer rights under distance selling regulations but T Patton were not willing to discuss this. Any advice much appreciated? Thank you.

Aylesbury_Duck

If this was a completely distant sale (you never visited the showroom) and you are a member of the public (and not a tradesperson buying in that capacity) then you can cancel without any charge, unless the products have been custom made.  It sounds as if they're not custom made, they're simply stock items of various sizes.  I can't see that they can lawfully charge any re-stocking fee to a member of the public, let alone 30%.  Their terms and conditions, even if you signed them in blood, do not override your consumer rights.

How did you pay?  Credit or debit card, perhaps?  If so, that gives you another route, but I would get back to TPatton straight away pointing out your rights under the CRA2015 and how they relate to this type of sale that used to be covered under distance selling regulations but is now covered by the Consumer Rights Act.

wandster

thank you.
This was a completely distant sale - only by phone.    Yes, I am just a member of the public.  And yes, they were not custom made.
I tried to discuss the 30% with the owner and my consumer rights but they stated " I can assure you we adhere to all regulations and our terms and conditions are clearly stated on all emailed quotations and order confirmations."  
The difficult part is that T Patton will not discuss this so I cannot progress it directly with them.
I paid by Mastercard if that helps.  

unholyangel

wandster said:

thank you.
This was a completely distant sale - only by phone.    Yes, I am just a member of the public.  And yes, they were not custom made.
I tried to discuss the 30% with the owner and my consumer rights but they stated " I can assure you we adhere to all regulations and our terms and conditions are clearly stated on all emailed quotations and order confirmations."  
The difficult part is that T Patton will not discuss this so I cannot progress it directly with them.
I paid by Mastercard if that helps.  

So ask them how their terms and conditions adhere to the consumer contracts (information, cancellation and additional charges) regulations 2013. 

Namely that before you're bound by the contract, they need to provide certain information in a durable medium (website is not durable) and specifically, how it adheres to Regulation 34 which states they need to refund all monies paid (unless you chose an enhanced service such as next day delivery, in which case they need to refund the full amount for goods and whatever amount they would charge for standard delivery)

MattMattMattUK

wandster said:

I tried to discuss the 30% with the owner and my consumer rights but they stated " I can assure you we adhere to all regulations and our terms and conditions are clearly stated on all emailed quotations and order confirmations."  

Some retailers are unaware that their terms and conditions are not able to override consumer rights legislation. What their terms and conditions say is irrelevant if it breaches or conflicts with legislation. However many take the view that their Ts and Cs have primacy, which is wrong, but makes enforcing things much more difficult. 

wandster said:

But £450 seems crazily excessive to return the items to a single supplier - regardless of Crosswater's fees.  Worse still, the store manager said it would take 6-8 weeks to return the items and process the refund!  

In terms of their costs, it would not be that unusual, 20% of that cost is VAT. The original £427 you quoted is £356 ex VAT, the freight on large items such as shower panels (usually over 2m in length) would be expensive to ship back, so it would easily bring that down to say £300, which could well be the restocking fee from the manufacturer, or the restocking fee from the manufacturer could be 10-20% and they double it so that they still make some profit, even on a returned order. 

Are you planning on changing to a different size, or just cancelling the whole order? They might be more open to negotiation if you were to change to a different size shower, one that you were more comfortable with, rather than just cancellation. Failing that you are entitled to a full refund, you can ask your car provider to issue a chargeback (or S75), which might get you the money back, it does not stop the retailer undertaking legal action, which you would likely win, but that could be a long drawn out process. 

George_Michael

Whether or not you have the right of cancellation under the Consumer contracts regulations will ultimately depend on the sale being classed as an organised distance sale.
Just because the purchase was made at a distance isn't in itself enough to automatically qualify if the retailer doesn't normally sell goods at a distance and looking at their website, I couldn't see any provision for ordering online.
This is how one website I found puts it.

The two essential aspects of a distance selling contract are:

• The business is operating the organised distance sale of goods or services – it isn’t a one-off phone order.
• The business and consumer only engage in distance communication (such as online or telephone) until the contract is finalised.

jon81uk

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?

Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

unholyangel

George_Michael said:

Whether or not you have the right of cancellation under the Consumer contracts regulations will ultimately depend on the sale being classed as an organised distance sale.
Just because the purchase was made at a distance isn't in itself enough to automatically qualify if the retailer doesn't normally sell goods at a distance and looking at their website, I couldn't see any provision for ordering online.
This is how one website I found puts it.

The two essential aspects of a distance selling contract are:

• The business is operating the organised distance sale of goods or services – it isn’t a one-off phone order.
• The business and consumer only engage in distance communication (such as online or telephone) until the contract is finalised.

Yes but if you look at the images they have, they say call email or pop in to order. That's an organised scheme. 

wandster

unholyangel said:
So ask them how their terms and conditions adhere to the consumer contracts (information, cancellation and additional charges) regulations 2013. 

Namely that before you're bound by the contract, they need to provide certain information in a durable medium (website is not durable) and specifically, how it adheres to Regulation 34 which states they need to refund all monies paid (unless you chose an enhanced service such as next day delivery, in which case they need to refund the full amount for goods and whatever amount they would charge for standard delivery)

thank you.  I'll ask them but they don't appear to be open to engage in any conversation.  The store manager said he is no longer allowed to discuss this further now that the owner has contacted me (by email).  And the owner won't discuss any consumer rights, beyond stating that the 30% was clearly stated in their t&c's.

Aylesbury_Duck

Sounds like it's time to call your credit card provider, telling them that you've exhausted discussions with the retailer and that the retailer consider the matter closed.

wandster

jon81uk said:

I think they can reduce the value of the return if the goods have been handled? So if you took it out the packaging, then an appropriate reduction in the refund can be made?
Also you may be responsible for the cost of returning the goods, only the outward postage needs to be repaid.

thank you.  The items haven't been handled by us.  We've not even received them.  They are still with the bathroom company (T Patton) that ordered them from Crosswater.   So they are still in the original packaging, and in storage at T Patton.
I am more than happy to cover any return costs.  It's the fact that it's such a significant amount that is hard to understand,