Haggle time?

JJones83

Hi guys and hope you are all well,

Without getting you to repeat advice etc, I have read the Newbie post (as a newbie) and several other cases here - good reading.

Apologies if this is covered somewhere in the multiple cases/posts here but my circumstances are:

- Invoice pcn received: final warning received for £160 sum, when the first two notices went to an old address (not received until today via mail after me asking) - and yes I ballsed up because I didn't update my logbook, so that's the clanger.

- BW Legal involved, hassling etc. Had their evidence through today showing my car in and out of a car park in exactly 10 minutes, of which I hadn't parked because I was waiting in the car park for a space and had not parked in any form of parking bay (bit of a pre-lockdown emergency to get to a bank). They haven't sent me the pay record for the machine which I've asked for, both from the managing parking company and BW Legal. I've gone back to them to ask for this as I believe is my right from posts here, to basically to buy a bit more time. (I've now got 10 days left according to BW legal to respond)

So my position and questions are;

- As I've not parked, and I think there's no signage to this effect upon entering the site (I'll photograph the entrance) - that there is no message to say there is a 'waiting time' period exemption or limit. Is this worth challenging - I know to some this may sound obvious to challenge and unfair but I'm concerned about the time and potential stress of going through the steps, and I don't want to go to court. There is other clear signage of their contract rules but you would have to park and get out and read it, and I didn't park.

- As it was my 'fault' with not updating my V5c logbook, is this thus what I get for not doing so - though £160 is ridiculous. Are there any precedents heard of these vultures taking pity on admin errors and haggling a sum to pay etc

- Yes haggling admits liability, I'm liable to a ridiculous charge but I am anyway because it's my car (owner admission only) - or at least liable in their eyes, however you want to see it. This doesn't concern me because my emphasis is I value time more than money even if it is £160, but is appealing to Popla now worth it with my position, or am I best to haggle with BW legal on the address basis error (them sending it to the wrong address - not me admitting my error), but also that there is no evidence of me parking on the site?

I know some will likely say screw BW legal and the fine (I normally would) and I've seen victorious posts and cases of people winning in this instance but it's through court, and I'd like a pain-free solution at present with other pressures afoot - if that costs 'some' money then fine but my post is really about advice in this situation, and hopefully it can help others in a similar boat.

Any advice or ridicule welcomed! Many thanks and all the best

D_P_Dance

final warning received for £160 sum,

No time to put the boot in, read this

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

and copy the correspondence to the SRA, it is time they put a stop to this deception by BWL, an officer of the court.

 .https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/instructing/your-right-to-complain/

Umkomaas

Far too late for POPLA. Which parking firm?  

What exactly is the latest letter from BWL - a debt collection letter, giving you 14 days to respond, or a formal Letter of Claim giving you 30 days to respond and enclosing a number of financial papers?

Fruitcake

Haggling.
Them: - "Pay us £100 plus £60 fake add on cost plus other fake add on costs."
You: - "No."

End of haggling.

Driving around looking for a space is not parking. Not a genuine pre-estimate of loss is no longer a defence point, but the rest is still valid.

Parking Prankster: Waiting for a space is not Parking. ParkingEye lose in court. Beware of snakes at Fistral Beach (parking-prankster.blogspot.com)

Your choices are, pay, or beat the scammers in court. Nobody here will suggest you pay because you have a very good case. The charge cannot exceed £100 plus allowable court fees, so a total of £175 - £200 if you lose. Up to £95 to you if you win.
It will cost you more to pay up than if you lost in court, and there is no risk of  CCJ as long as you follow the advice on this forum.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you send a rectification notice to the scammer's DPO telling them to erase your old details and update it with your new address for service? If not, do so now.
Use the specific words I have underlined. 

beamerguy

From what you say, BWL won't win on a such a feeble case

You don't owe £160 and BWL know that, enough courts have kicked them out

Who is the PPC ?

You received a letter today and you have 10 days to respond.  A real letter before claim must give you 30 days to respond.  Sounds like you have a 14 day letter which is a debt crawler letter hoping you are a mug.   Is that what you received ?
If you get an LBA then come back here.  You can then ask them what is their legal authority to add £60 ........ their usual reply if they bother is nonsensical

And of course is they do attempt to take you to court you can point the judge to this

EXCEL v WILKINSON ..... claim struck out for ABUSE OF PROCESS.  DDJ Jackson who is now HHJ Jackson made this ruling.  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V Excel v Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

JJones83

Wow thank you guys for the speedy replies - much appreciated. Bare with me to give more info in summary of above replies:

- Parking firm is Premier Parking Ltd

- Letter received by post was to my current address, final notification, 30 days to respond. Thus I had no time to respond but that's my doing with lack of update from V05c. BW legal has my current address as I received the final notice letter by post to my current address

- I responded with the SAR request of data held within the 30 day period. Didn't give any details of my phone number, date of birth etc, ridiculous. This data was received this morning via email, showing the 2 previous letters, containing the entry and exit of the vehicle - ten minute timespan.

- Note on this email said to reply in 10 days (to BW Legal) or further action commencing on BW Legal's end etc. It's not at debt collection stage yet / not a formal letter of claim yet. My response was to ask for the machine data from the site - VPN etc to annoy them hopefully and buy time (also asked this data from PPC data protection route, 30 days return time notice received)

Beamerguy - thanks for the info and court ruling info - stashed away!

Fruitcake - Thanks that Fistral case I did read last night, hilarious. Thanks for the options, the court route actually costs me more money because it's the time involved - or so I think, I could be wrong here apologies in advance. I will again contact PPC DPO route and about the rectification notice right now - many thanks

Umkomaas - thanks for the Popla info, makes sense. Also my wife is South African

Am I right in thinking what D_P Dance's info states is to complain to the SRA about BWLegal - who aren't my solicitor but I am involved obviously. The SRA states:

'If you are unhappy with your solicitor or their firm, you have the right to complain. They must tell you how you can complain to them and publish their full complaints procedure.

They must also tell you how you can complain to the SRA and the Legal Ombudsman.'

If I do this now, will this this stagger any of their debt collection threats etc - however unlawful or not they are. My thinking is that if this process takes a long time this draws on and I end up in court. Will this SRA route back them down or will they likely continue - though I think I know the answer to this. I also would be careful trying to back them down, showing any cards I have I guess.

Again apologies if these are stupid or repeated questions - and again thanks for your help, is a good feeling to be able to talk to others about this and get some educated inputs.

JJones83

Also I may be misunderstanding what 'going to court' actually means in this instance. Slightly different I expect from turning up in handcuffs! Is the procedure undertaken remotely. Again more ignorant questions but it may helps others too hopefully - many thanks!

Umkomaas

Parking firm is Premier Parking Ltd

Please double check - there are 3 different 'Premiers' but none by the full name you've quoted. We have to have this absolutely spot on or we could end up down the wrong rabbit hole. 

Fruitcake

Pre-covid, a small claim would normally be held in a room with a judge, the claimant, and the defendant. Very occasionally it would be the same people but in a full sized court room.
Now it is usually done via video link or a three way 'phone call. There is a whole thread dedicated to this particular method.

JJones83

Umkomaas said:

Parking firm is Premier Parking Ltd

Please double check - there are 3 different 'Premiers' but none by the full name you've quoted. We have to have this absolutely spot on or we could end up down the wrong rabbit hole. 

Apologies - Premier Parking Solutions

Thanks Fruitcake!

JJones83

JJones83 said:

Umkomaas said:

Parking firm is Premier Parking Ltd

Please double check - there are 3 different 'Premiers' but none by the full name you've quoted. We have to have this absolutely spot on or we could end up down the wrong rabbit hole. 

Apologies - Premier Parking Solutions

Thanks Fruitcake!

It actually says 'Premier Parking Limited' as referenced from BWLegal's client reference