Reply To Defence - E S Parking Enforcement - Manchester

Cryptjitsuu

Gladstones/ES Parking Witness Statment. 

Should I focus my WS around the points around the signs or should I also go back against the legal cases mentioned. 

Note how they have not included any ACTUAL images of the sites or in-person images of the sign locations.

Link - hxxps://pdfhost.io/v/6pWXZqQ9K_BUNDLEpdf.pdf

Coupon-mad

You can't re-hash your first WS and evidence.

You might be able to send a supplementary WS but its purpose is as a WS (more story of what happened/in support of your defence, if there is something new to add) not to act as a skeleton argument.    Maybe in fact you need a skelly because you can go back over legal cases in a skelly and there is no deadline - it is reasonable to send it, say 3 working days before the hearing, along with your costs assessment updated to include attendance at both hearings..

Few people do a skeleton argument for a parking case but there are some on here if you search, or if you Google and add site:forums.moneysavingexpert.com

Cryptjitsuu

Witness Statement Below:

• hxxps://pdfhost.io/v/X~It8dlu4_Witness_Statement.pdf
  
  Anything else I need to add? I think the thing that secures it really is the irrefutable images that there is no clear signage and even if there were ES have not used it/submitted it in their WS/Evidence.

Le_Kirk

Your link made live: -
https://pdfhost.io/v/X~It8dlu4_Witness_Statement.pdf
Can you not post live links yet?  You have 21 posts under your belt.

Umkomaas

Just a very quick scan of the WS. I'd make something of the fact, associated with your point of it being a penalty, that there was no contractual offer to park, a contract has three important elements, offer, acceptance and consideration, none of these was in evidence.   You cannot contract to do something that is forbidden.  At best this is a case of trespass, one which only a landowner can pursue. 

Cryptjitsuu

Umkomaas said:

Just a very quick scan of the WS. I'd make something of the fact, associated with your point of it being a penalty, that there was no contractual offer to park, a contract has three important elements, offer, acceptance and consideration, none of these was in evidence.   You cannot contract to do something that is forbidden.  At best this is a case of trespass, one which only a landowner can pursue. 

Thanks, however, I do mention it in point 7, do you think it's worth fleshing it out a bit more? 

"However, I received a PCN and now am asked to pay an inflated charge of £100 for parking on a piece of land that serves no purpose. Upon receiving evidence of the alleged contravention and with it the sign that was supposed to have been seen despite being positioned behind the car (DRC1 Exhibit B 1&2) it is clear that the sign is forbidding with no mention of the word contract on it (DRC1 Exhibit C) may I note is the only signage graphic that was supplied to me in my SAR that was sent to the claimant and not the updated pack sent with the claimant's witness statement which now includes all the signs used on the estate."

Umkomaas

Thanks, however, I do mention it in point 7, do you think it's worth fleshing it out a bit more? 

I don't think it will harm. 

Cryptjitsuu

Quick Update for everyone here. 

Secured the W on this the other day. 

Judge gave Brian Hargreaves a bit of a grilling about:

- The signage not being eligible due to font size 
- The signage not being contractual 
- The fact he was trying to use a site map and PCN pictures as evidence that I would have seen the sign (clearly made no effort to go to the site to take photos himself despite it being less than 5 minutes walk from the court)

Judge agreed that due to the placement and lack of clear signage it was unlikely I had seen the sign as documented in the photos I took of the site on the basis of this he could have dismissed the case alone but also stated that even if I had seen the signs it still would have been dismissed due to this being a landowner trespass issue not private PCN. 

So if anyone gets a parking charge in Manchester in the New Bailey estate or Spinningfields from E S Parking Enforcement please refer to this case and my WS & Defence in the thread.

Thanks to all who helped!

D_P_Dance

They have wasted your time, now waste theirs, read this,

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

Umkomaas

Nice win against ES, well done. 👏

but also stated that even if I had seen the signs it still would have been dismissed due to this being a landowner trespass issue not private PCN. 

Was this because he deemed the signage to be 'forbidding' rather than being an offer to park?  Seems to be a clued up Judge. 

Can you tell us the Judge's name and location of the court please?

Do you know about the current Government consultation on private parking charges and debt collection?  I'm sure you'd have a very poignant message to give. Here's the forum thread about it. Consultation closes on 27 August. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6286801/government-consultation-re-private-parking-charge-levels-august-2021-please-bookmark-this-thread#latest