Nightmare freeholder refusing permission - help!

Sarah20

I've owned a leasehold flat for almost four years and I'm looking to do some updates to the property (new bathroom, new kitchen and replace the windows). With it not being 100% clear in the lease what permissions are needed, I thought it best to double check with the freeholder. After calling and describing the works, he mentioned it might be £300-400 to grant the permission (which I thought was a bit steep) and he said it'd be more cost effective to grant all the permissions at once rather than separately. After sending him details over email (labelled kitchen designs and bathroom layout), he came back to say that the cost would actually be £600! I replied asking for a cost breakdown, mentioning that I'd spoken to a few property professionals and the Leasehold Advisory Service (with the aim of him knowing I wasn't a pushover to be scammed) and he abruptly came back to say the offer to deal with the matter informally had been withdrawn and I'd now need to provide the following for him to even consider giving permission:

• A copy of the planning approval or letter from the local authority stating that no planning is required.
• A copy of the building regulation application/and or approval or a copy of any correspondence from building control stating the works does not required building regulation approval.
• A full and detailed specification for the works including diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• A full specification of any additional or altered electrics and plumbing together with diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• An admin fee of £100 for consideration of the documents.

On top of this, there would then still be the fee to grant the consent. This seems ridiculous to me as there's nothing structural (replacing the kitchen and bathroom will be almost like for like) and gathering all these documents will obviously take a long time to pull together. After trying to reason with him via email, I called to speak to him and was hung up on after being accused of throwing the initial offer in his face and checking up on him! He also said that he doesn't have to give me permission if he doesn't want to but a line in the lease says that permission shouldn't be reasonably withheld by the freeholder.

I just want to move ahead with my renovations without fear of reprisal (apparently a neighbour said he sued a previous owner for putting in double glazing without consent!) so any advice on how to proceed next would be very welcome. Thank you in advance.

[Deleted User]

Sarah20 said:

I've owned a leasehold flat for almost four years and I'm looking to do some updates to the property (new bathroom, new kitchen and replace the windows). With it not being 100% clear in the lease what permissions are needed, I thought it best to double check with the freeholder. After calling and describing the works, he mentioned it might be £300-400 to grant the permission (which I thought was a bit steep) and he said it'd be more cost effective to grant all the permissions at once rather than separately. After sending him details over email (labelled kitchen designs and bathroom layout), he came back to say that the cost would actually be £600! I replied asking for a cost breakdown, mentioning that I'd spoken to a few property professionals and the Leasehold Advisory Service (with the aim of him knowing I wasn't a pushover to be scammed) and he abruptly came back to say the offer to deal with the matter informally had been withdrawn and I'd now need to provide the following for him to even consider giving permission:

• A copy of the planning approval or letter from the local authority stating that no planning is required.
• A copy of the building regulation application/and or approval or a copy of any correspondence from building control stating the works does not required building regulation approval.
• A full and detailed specification for the works including diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• A full specification of any additional or altered electrics and plumbing together with diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• An admin fee of £100 for consideration of the documents.

On top of this, there would then still be the fee to grant the consent. This seems ridiculous to me as there's nothing structural (replacing the kitchen and bathroom will be almost like for like) and gathering all these documents will obviously take a long time to pull together. After trying to reason with him via email, I called to speak to him and was hung up on after being accused of throwing the initial offer in his face and checking up on him! He also said that he doesn't have to give me permission if he doesn't want to but a line in the lease says that permission shouldn't be reasonably withheld by the freeholder.

I just want to move ahead with my renovations without fear of reprisal (apparently a neighbour said he sued a previous owner for putting in double glazing without consent!) so any advice on how to proceed next would be very welcome. Thank you in advance.

What exactly does your lease say about these types of works? 

princeofpounds

Go back to your lease, which is the most important document here, but one you have glossed over.

What does it say about responsibility for various parts of the structure? Where is it unclear?

Firstly you should establish what you can do without permission. Then go ahead and do that. I suspect a huge amount of the kitchen and bathroom work would be included. The windows are more likely to rest with the freeholder.

Here is what LAS have to say on the topic. Sounds like it's one of those areas that may get addressed when hell freezes over and leasehold reform actually arrives, but for now short of going to Tribunal you may have to swallow some unreasonable demands. 

https://www.lease-advice.org/article/consent-to-alterations-improvements-in-a-leasehold-property-what-charges-can-be-justified/

Have you thought about collective enfranchisement with your fellow leaseholders?

pinkshoes

Since when did you need a freeholders permission to change a bathroom or kitchen??? 

Is is this really written into your lease? Or are you going to be making structural changes?

The windows being changed will obviously need the freeholders permission.

Sarah20

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Sarah20 said:

I've owned a leasehold flat for almost four years and I'm looking to do some updates to the property (new bathroom, new kitchen and replace the windows). With it not being 100% clear in the lease what permissions are needed, I thought it best to double check with the freeholder. After calling and describing the works, he mentioned it might be £300-400 to grant the permission (which I thought was a bit steep) and he said it'd be more cost effective to grant all the permissions at once rather than separately. After sending him details over email (labelled kitchen designs and bathroom layout), he came back to say that the cost would actually be £600! I replied asking for a cost breakdown, mentioning that I'd spoken to a few property professionals and the Leasehold Advisory Service (with the aim of him knowing I wasn't a pushover to be scammed) and he abruptly came back to say the offer to deal with the matter informally had been withdrawn and I'd now need to provide the following for him to even consider giving permission:

• A copy of the planning approval or letter from the local authority stating that no planning is required.
• A copy of the building regulation application/and or approval or a copy of any correspondence from building control stating the works does not required building regulation approval.
• A full and detailed specification for the works including diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• A full specification of any additional or altered electrics and plumbing together with diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• An admin fee of £100 for consideration of the documents.

On top of this, there would then still be the fee to grant the consent. This seems ridiculous to me as there's nothing structural (replacing the kitchen and bathroom will be almost like for like) and gathering all these documents will obviously take a long time to pull together. After trying to reason with him via email, I called to speak to him and was hung up on after being accused of throwing the initial offer in his face and checking up on him! He also said that he doesn't have to give me permission if he doesn't want to but a line in the lease says that permission shouldn't be reasonably withheld by the freeholder.

I just want to move ahead with my renovations without fear of reprisal (apparently a neighbour said he sued a previous owner for putting in double glazing without consent!) so any advice on how to proceed next would be very welcome. Thank you in advance.

What exactly does your lease say about these types of works? 

Thanks for your response; the lease has a clause about needing to seek permission for structural alterations or changing the layout of the property but nothing about standard renovation or replacing the windows. As I'd heard he'd been previously difficult to work with, I thought it best to contact him. He mentioned that if I wanted to make any changes to the plumbing or electrical work (e.g. switch the toilet and sink around in the bathroom or add some new sockets in the kitchen) this would require permission. This seems excessive!

[Deleted User]

Sarah20 said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Sarah20 said:

I've owned a leasehold flat for almost four years and I'm looking to do some updates to the property (new bathroom, new kitchen and replace the windows). With it not being 100% clear in the lease what permissions are needed, I thought it best to double check with the freeholder. After calling and describing the works, he mentioned it might be £300-400 to grant the permission (which I thought was a bit steep) and he said it'd be more cost effective to grant all the permissions at once rather than separately. After sending him details over email (labelled kitchen designs and bathroom layout), he came back to say that the cost would actually be £600! I replied asking for a cost breakdown, mentioning that I'd spoken to a few property professionals and the Leasehold Advisory Service (with the aim of him knowing I wasn't a pushover to be scammed) and he abruptly came back to say the offer to deal with the matter informally had been withdrawn and I'd now need to provide the following for him to even consider giving permission:

• A copy of the planning approval or letter from the local authority stating that no planning is required.
• A copy of the building regulation application/and or approval or a copy of any correspondence from building control stating the works does not required building regulation approval.
• A full and detailed specification for the works including diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• A full specification of any additional or altered electrics and plumbing together with diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• An admin fee of £100 for consideration of the documents.

On top of this, there would then still be the fee to grant the consent. This seems ridiculous to me as there's nothing structural (replacing the kitchen and bathroom will be almost like for like) and gathering all these documents will obviously take a long time to pull together. After trying to reason with him via email, I called to speak to him and was hung up on after being accused of throwing the initial offer in his face and checking up on him! He also said that he doesn't have to give me permission if he doesn't want to but a line in the lease says that permission shouldn't be reasonably withheld by the freeholder.

I just want to move ahead with my renovations without fear of reprisal (apparently a neighbour said he sued a previous owner for putting in double glazing without consent!) so any advice on how to proceed next would be very welcome. Thank you in advance.

What exactly does your lease say about these types of works? 

Thanks for your response; the lease has a clause about needing to seek permission for structural alterations or changing the layout of the property but nothing about standard renovation or replacing the windows. As I'd heard he'd been previously difficult to work with, I thought it best to contact him. He mentioned that if I wanted to make any changes to the plumbing or electrical work (e.g. switch the toilet and sink around in the bathroom or add some new sockets in the kitchen) this would require permission. This seems excessive!

Could you please quote the exact wording of the clause. 

princeofpounds

Sarah, you really need to read EVERYTHING the lease says about what parts of the property are demised to you vs. demised to the freehold. Post it here suitably anonymised if you like.

davidmcn

Sarah20 said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Sarah20 said:

I've owned a leasehold flat for almost four years and I'm looking to do some updates to the property (new bathroom, new kitchen and replace the windows). With it not being 100% clear in the lease what permissions are needed, I thought it best to double check with the freeholder. After calling and describing the works, he mentioned it might be £300-400 to grant the permission (which I thought was a bit steep) and he said it'd be more cost effective to grant all the permissions at once rather than separately. After sending him details over email (labelled kitchen designs and bathroom layout), he came back to say that the cost would actually be £600! I replied asking for a cost breakdown, mentioning that I'd spoken to a few property professionals and the Leasehold Advisory Service (with the aim of him knowing I wasn't a pushover to be scammed) and he abruptly came back to say the offer to deal with the matter informally had been withdrawn and I'd now need to provide the following for him to even consider giving permission:

• A copy of the planning approval or letter from the local authority stating that no planning is required.
• A copy of the building regulation application/and or approval or a copy of any correspondence from building control stating the works does not required building regulation approval.
• A full and detailed specification for the works including diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• A full specification of any additional or altered electrics and plumbing together with diagrams/plans of existing layouts and proposed layouts.
• An admin fee of £100 for consideration of the documents.

On top of this, there would then still be the fee to grant the consent. This seems ridiculous to me as there's nothing structural (replacing the kitchen and bathroom will be almost like for like) and gathering all these documents will obviously take a long time to pull together. After trying to reason with him via email, I called to speak to him and was hung up on after being accused of throwing the initial offer in his face and checking up on him! He also said that he doesn't have to give me permission if he doesn't want to but a line in the lease says that permission shouldn't be reasonably withheld by the freeholder.

I just want to move ahead with my renovations without fear of reprisal (apparently a neighbour said he sued a previous owner for putting in double glazing without consent!) so any advice on how to proceed next would be very welcome. Thank you in advance.

What exactly does your lease say about these types of works? 

He mentioned that if I wanted to make any changes to the plumbing or electrical work (e.g. switch the toilet and sink around in the bathroom or add some new sockets in the kitchen) this would require permission.

What matters is what the lease actually says, not what he thinks it says.

Sarah20

Thanks for your replies; sorry for not being clear on the lease clause, I've attached a picture of the exact wording in the alterations clause.

@princeofpounds My neighbours approached me about collective enfranchisement as they had massive problems with getting their lease extended but due to the cost and my lease have 175 years left on it, I didn't choose to go ahead with it.

Sarah20

princeofpounds said:

Sarah, you really need to read EVERYTHING the lease says about what parts of the property are demised to you vs. demised to the freehold. Post it here suitably anonymised if you like.

I've definitely gone through the lease with a fine toothcomb! The image I attached in my previous post is from a clause titled 'Restrictions on alterations' and there is no mention of the windows at all; there are some references to keeping the property maintained (painted and clean) and that the floor coverings are to remain carpet in all rooms except the kitchen and bathroom but that's it. 

CookieMonster

pinkshoes said:

Since when did you need a freeholders permission to change a bathroom or kitchen??? 

Since before this happened, since you ask:
Flat owner has £600,000 London home SEIZED by freeholder | Daily Mail Online