Phone scams

pbartlett

Carrot007 said:

pbartlett said:

I have had a couple of calls recently from numbers not in my contact list but the mobile has displayed who they are eg the last one showed the name of the solicitor I am using for house purchase. Very useful, but how is that done?

Your phone is not able to determiine the number of the caller and the caller can easily set it to whatever they like.

All caller ID does is identify legitimate callers that have decided to comply with the system.

Have you never recieved a call pertaining to be from your own number? Most people have.

Stop answering the phone to random calls.

Caller ID number display is NOT what I am talking about and yes the phone IS able to do this which is what my post was about. 

So the mobile rings, and it does not display a number but rather a text box with eg 'AHJ Solicitors'as the caller. Or 'Lloyds Bank' as the caller.

dinglebert

hugheskevi said:

It is a shame people won't engage with the calls. If everyone just answered the call and spent, say, 5 minutes wasting their time then the whole business model falls apart and the problem would end in no time. A minor improvement for most of us, admittedly, but a massive improvement to the lives of those who are taken in.

They are just looking for someone who will fall for the scam, so it is great for them if those who won't fall for it self-select themselves out of the system (hence why the initial call is almost always automated, requiring action to get to speak to a person), leaving them free to spend time scamming the elderly and other vulnerable people who do fall for the scam. Each individual working on the phones will only get the occasional success, well below one a week, and that is with almost none of their time being wasted by scambaiters - it wouldn't take much to make it unprofitable.

It can also be quite amusing, a spot of role-play, maybe correcting the scammer when they miss or mis-describe a step, I even got to have a genuine conversation with a scammer about the scambaiting YouTube channels we both watch earlier this week, and also found out that the folk on the phones believe the UK and USA govts. refund those who falll for their scams.

Why would I want to speak to the scum that these people employ.  I equally have no wish to speak to anyone who wanted to steal my car or break into my house.  If you think engaging them in conversation is going to make then mend the error of their ways then I'm sorry but you are wrong.  I think engaging these scum encourages them to know they will get to speak to other humans who they can con.  Just block them.

hugheskevi

Why would I want to speak to the scum that these people employ.  I equally have no wish to speak to anyone who wanted to steal my car or break into my house.  If you think engaging them in conversation is going to make then mend the error of their ways then I'm sorry but you are wrong.  I think engaging these scum encourages them to know they will get to speak to other humans who they can con.  Just block them.

I have no intention of trying to persuade them of the moral value of their ways. Quite the reverse, as even trying to do that will immediately result in call disconnection and them moving on to find their next victim. It is about targeting the business model. 

Their business model solely works because the overwhelming majority of people either block them or disconnect as soon as they here the pre-recorded nonsense that goes with these calls. The model wouldn't even work if it was individuals making outbound calls rather than machines, as it requires individuals who will not fall for the scam to helpfully disconnect the call and never interact with them. That ensures the call centre can focus on the small proportion of individuals, usually elderly and vulnerable, who get taken in by the calls. Even then, their success rate is tiny, but enough to turn a profit.

Sure, it is a waste of time at the individual level to spend just a few minutes interacting with the call, absolutely. But so is donating blood and voting, and I do that too, for the wider social benefit.

Pollycat

hugheskevi said:

Why would I want to speak to the scum that these people employ.  I equally have no wish to speak to anyone who wanted to steal my car or break into my house.  If you think engaging them in conversation is going to make then mend the error of their ways then I'm sorry but you are wrong.  I think engaging these scum encourages them to know they will get to speak to other humans who they can con.  Just block them.

I have no intention of trying to persuade them of the moral value of their ways. It is targeting the business model. 

Their business model solely works because the overwhelming majority of people either block them or disconnect as soon as they here the robotic nonsense that goes with these calls - the model wouldn't even work if it was individuals making outbound calls rather than machines - it requires individuals who will not fall for the scam to never interact with them. That ensures the call centre can focus on the small proportion of individuals, usually elderly and vulnerable, who get taken in by the calls. Even then, their success rate is tiny, but enough to turn a profit.

Sure, it is a waste of time at the individual level to spend just a few minutes interacting with the call, absolutely. But so is donating blood and voting, and I do that too, for the wider social benefit.

Donating blood and voting cannot be compared to wasting time talking to scam companies.

I'm surprised you even consider it is.

hugheskevi

Pollycat said:

Donating blood and voting cannot be compared to wasting time talking to scam companies.

I'm surprised you even consider it is.

Donating blood results in someone, somewhere getting medical assistance, even though I will get no benefit individually from my donation.

Voting supports a democratic system, even if the chance of my individual vote making any difference is almost nil.

Wasting a scammer's time results in an elderly person not getting conned out of their life savings, even though I lose a tiny portion of my day doing it.

I also volunteer to rescue wildlife. In practice, that is mostly rescuing pigeons as they most often come into contact with people. It can be viewed as a waste of time as pigeons breed to the level of food available, the number would be same whether injured pigeons are taken to rehabbers or not. But it is about the type of society I want to live in.

All seem quite good aims? Why the objection?

Pollycat

hugheskevi said:

Pollycat said:

Donating blood and voting cannot be compared to wasting time talking to scam companies.

I'm surprised you even consider it is.

Donating blood results in someone, somewhere getting medical assistance, even though I will get no benefit individually from my donation.

Voting supports a democratic system, even if the chance of my individual vote making any difference is almost nil.

Wasting a scammer's time results in an elderly person not getting conned out of their life savings, even though I lose a tiny portion of my day doing it.

I also volunteer to rescue wildlife. In practice, that is mostly rescuing pigeons as they most often come into contact with people. It can be viewed as a waste of time as pigeons breed to the level of food available, the number would be same whether injured pigeons are taken to rehabbers or not. But it is about the type of society I want to live in.

All seem quite good aims? Why the objection?

It's not really an objection.

Just a disagreement with your opinion.

I agree with your stance on # 1, 2 & 4. I personally don't think these are a waste of time.

But not # 3. I am not convinced that engaging in 'role-play' with scammers who are wasting my time will result in an elderly person not getting conned out of their savings.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Korkyb

Pollycat said:

hugheskevi said:

It is a shame people won't engage with the calls. If everyone just answered the call and spent, say, 5 minutes wasting their time then the whole business model falls apart and the problem would end in no time. A minor improvement for most of us, admittedly, but a massive improvement to the lives of those who are taken in.

They are just looking for someone who will fall for the scam, so it is great for them if those who won't fall for it self-select themselves out of the system (hence why the initial call is almost always automated, requiring action to get to speak to a person), leaving them free to spend time scamming the elderly and other vulnerable people who do fall for the scam. Each individual working on the phones will only get the occasional success, well below one a week, and that is with almost none of their time being wasted by scambaiters - it wouldn't take much to make it unprofitable.

It can also be quite amusing, a spot of role-play, maybe correcting the scammer when they miss or mis-describe a step, I even got to have a genuine conversation with a scammer about the scambaiting YouTube channels we both watch earlier this week, and also found out that the folk on the phones believe the UK and USA govts. refund those who falll for their scams.

I have better things to do with my time.

"5 minutes wasting their time" is also 5 minutes wasting my time.

"I have better things to do with my time".
vs
30.5K posts on MSE Forum.
;-)

Pollycat

Korkyb said:

"I have better things to do with my time".
vs
30.5K posts on MSE Forum.
;-)

Yes - over a period of 14 years...

And it's my choice how to spend my time.

Using the internet in whatever way I wish is my choice.

It does not intrude into my life unless I choose it.

Unsolicited phone calls are an intrusion into my life.

I choose not to waste my time answering them - regardless of how much good another poster alleges it will do.

Korkyb

Good for you.
Have a great day

.

missile

JamoLew said:

missile said:

JamoLew said:

Get a set of BT phones with trueCall/CallGuardian 

Had some for years and not had a single unwanted call in that time

These are a pain for genuine callers.
I have a cheaper option, with my phone set to go to answering machine after two rings.

Why are they a pain ?

If the person in is my phone book they get straight through - if they aren't they just have to announce who they are.

Leaving an answerphone message is more of a pain (imo) than a simple announcement of who you are - or at best, no worse

Call Guardian may be great for you, not so convenient for others, e.g. those who work for NHS.
I find the call guardian process takes too long and the standard message irritating.