Invalid will(s) or not?

Daisy1515

My father-in-law died a few weeks ago and I’m helping my husband to sort everything out. 

The problem we have is whether the will(s) is(are) valid or not:
Will 1 dated 2014, is a standard will format and appears signed & witnessed correctly.
Will 2 dated 2016, is a non-standard format but has all the relevant sections. It is signed but not witnessed, although the executor has signed under his details earlier in the document.
Will 2 has been amended with several crossings out to certain beneficiaries & their amounts left. None of the alterations are witnessed or dated, but are signed.

A local solicitor has said, unfortunately, that he can’t say whether the wills are valid or invalid without lots of investigation because of the alterations & discrepancies but, sadly, because of the small value of the estate, it’s not worth asking the solicitor to get involved further.

My husband just wants to do the right thing. Btw he & his brothers are not beneficiaries in the will but, of course, if the wills were found to be invalid, then they would be under intestacy rules.

There is an (elderly) executor who is not at all interested in any of this.

We just don’t know who decides whether the will is invalid or not?

I’d be very grateful for any help or thoughts,
thanks,
Daisy1515

Flugelhorn

does it not just revert back to the last valid will?
grandmother left a witnessed but unsigned will (I know.....)  - all to one child (entirely reasonable) - intestacy meant it was 5 equal shares to children.  the 4 not mentioned in the invalid will were happy that this these were their mother's wishes and deed was drawn up to that effect enabling youngest child to inherit as per the invalid will. 

naedanger

Daisy1515 said:

My father-in-law died a few weeks ago and I’m helping my husband to sort everything out. 

The problem we have is whether the will(s) is(are) valid or not:
Will 1 dated 2014, is a standard will format and appears signed & witnessed correctly.
Will 2 dated 2016, is a non-standard format but has all the relevant sections. It is signed but not witnessed, although the executor has signed under his details earlier in the document.
Will 2 has been amended with several crossings out to certain beneficiaries & their amounts left. None of the alterations are witnessed or dated, but are signed.

A local solicitor has said, unfortunately, that he can’t say whether the wills are valid or invalid without lots of investigation because of the alterations & discrepancies but, sadly, because of the small value of the estate, it’s not worth asking the solicitor to get involved further.

My husband just wants to do the right thing. Btw he & his brothers are not beneficiaries in the will but, of course, if the wills were found to be invalid, then they would be under intestacy rules.

There is an (elderly) executor who is not at all interested in any of this.

We just don’t know who decides whether the will is invalid or not?

I’d be very grateful for any help or thoughts,
thanks,
Daisy1515

Where did your father-in-law live? I am slightly surprised by the solicitor's response. I would have thought wills 2 and 3 would be clearly invalid because they were not witnessed. How many people witnessed will one, was it one or two?

Mojisola

Daisy1515 said:

The problem we have is whether the will(s) is(are) valid or not:
Will 1 dated 2014, is a standard will format and appears signed & witnessed correctly.
Will 2 dated 2016, is a non-standard format but has all the relevant sections. It is signed but not witnessed

A local solicitor has said, unfortunately, that he can’t say whether the wills are valid or invalid without lots of investigation

I don't understand the solicitor's response.

Will 2 wasn't witnessed and so isn't valid.

Therefore Will 1 stands.

Surely it's as simple as that.

Keep_pedalling

Seems pretty clear will 2 is invalid, so it looks like the estate should be distributed as per will one, unless there is something in that invalidates it.

xylophone

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/wills/#:~:text=In order for a will,years old or over and&text=signed by the person making,after it has been signed.

Requirements for a valid will

In order for a will to be valid, it must be:

• made by a person who is 18 years old or over and
• made voluntarily and without pressure from any other person and
• made by a person who is of sound mind. This means the person must be fully aware of the nature of the document being written or signed and aware of the property and the identify of the people who may inherit and
• in writing and
• signed by the person making the will in the presence of two witnesses and
• signed by the two witnesses, in the presence of the person making the will, after it has been signed.

xylophone

Looking at the above, the valid will is  the one signed and witnessed in 2014.

There is an (elderly) executor who is not at all interested in any of this.

The sole named executor?

Savvy_Sue

I agree, will 1 is valid.

Is the problem that beneficiaries under will 2 want to challenge it? They can do so, at their own risk.

If any or all of the beneficiaries under will 1 want to abide by will 2, they can either make gifts from their shares or do a Deed of Variation. 

If the current executor does not wish to act, they can renounce. If only one was named, the brothers can decide who will act instead.

Manxman_in_exile

Daisy1515 said:

...

A local solicitor has said, unfortunately, that he can’t say whether the wills are valid or invalid without lots of investigation because of the alterations & discrepancies but, sadly, because of the small value of the estate, it’s not worth asking the solicitor to get involved further.

...

I would suggest that you and your husband think carefully before using this "local solicitor" again.  (Did they charge you for this "advice" or was it free?)

Will 2 in 2016 cannot be valid if it hasn't been witnessed by two people.  Will 1 in 2014 is the one to go with assuming it meets all other requirements and it is the last valid will.

Savvy_Sue

Savvy_Sue said:

I agree, will 1 is valid.

Is the problem that beneficiaries under will 2 want to challenge it? They can do so, at their own risk.

If any or all of the beneficiaries under will 1 want to abide by will 2, they can either make gifts from their shares or do a Deed of Variation. 

If the current executor does not wish to act, they can renounce. If only one was named, the brothers can decide who will act instead.

Actually, to update this slightly: 

• The current beneficiaries under Will 1 can vary the terms of that will through a Deed of Variation. Any one or more of them can do this: only those adversely affected by the change need to agree it. 
• Alternatively, any one or more of them can making gifts from their shares to anyone they like. 
  
• If the beneficiaries under Will 2 want to contest it, good luck with that. 
• If your DH and his brothers want to contest it, good luck with that. 
• If your DH and his brothers do NOT want to contest it, then they have no need to get involved in this at all. 
• Whoever organises the funeral will be responsible for paying for it, BUT they can claim these expenses from the estate. 

It might help if you outlined what the problem is: does the elderly executor want to step back from administering the estate? They can do so by renouncing. Neither DH nor your brothers needs to step in unless they wish to do so. One or more of the beneficiaries under Will 1 would be the obvious choice to take on this task. They might need to explain why none of the sons wishes to take on the task. If the estate is large and complicated then they could instruct a solicitor to act on their behalf. 

How large is the estate? Is it solvent? If it's not, then walking away is the best thing to do. Clearly if there's a house involved it's unlikely to be insolvent. 

Are there likely to be items in the house which the brothers would like for sentimental reasons? They have no right to them, but there's nothing to stop them asking the executor if they may have them. If they have no real value then that shouldn't be a problem: if there's a priceless old master or stamp collection then that's a different matter. 

Are the beneficiaries of either will known to you, and do you wish to retain a relationship with them? 

naedanger

As has been said, but worth reiterating, you need to ensure Will 1 is valid e.g. if your F-i-L lived in England that it was witnessed by two witnesses.