Buying a flat - and just discovered it needs a new roof...

LondonBookLover

I’m hoping to pick the brains of anyone who has bought a property that turned out to need a new roof. My husband and I are in the process of buying a first floor Victorian flat in London; the survey came back as generally everything was good - all 1s and 2s - before Christmas, but flagging it was recommended to get someone to check the attic as they could see there was no insulation/ventilation, and it looked like work was needed but they couldn’t properly inspect the timbers because of the vendor’s belongings and some sheeting she’d put up while she used it as a room to paint in. The vendor then refused to let us have anyone inspect the attic because of Covid and the new strain, cancelling last minute on two separate roofers we had got agreement to send round. We finally, after several weeks of arguing with the estate agent, were able to get someone in to inspect it in Jan but they’ve now come back to say because she’s been doing her own ‘slapdash’ repairs there everything’s been bodged, it’s not dried or aired properly and they strongly recommend it needs the roof and all the timbers replacing. We’d need to get the agreement of the other freeholder (the downstairs neighbour) for anything and they’d split the costs with us. Given the vendor’s delayed this whole thing by weeks and weeks we’re pretty stressed as we’re due to have a baby in just over an month. 

Would this make you run for the hills? We were intending to go back tomorrow and ask for a reduction of half the costs quoted and also ask for a retention against the sale of the other half the costs in case the other freeholder doesn’t have the money to pay for the roof now. The roofer has said it doesn’t have to be done urgently, so I guess that might mean we can hang on till summer once the baby is here but is this just lunacy to proceed? How awful is having a new roof done when you live somewhere? If we don’t proceed, we’d be looking at proceeding with the sale of my one bed flat anyway as we don’t want to lose our buyer, and move into rented accommodation so we have room for the baby and working at home, which is obviously also more costs. But not as much as a new roof... 

HampshireH

What will you do if the other freeholder says no thankyou not affordable in once you have bought it?

The fact it's been left so long...... Has the seller ever tried to get it sorted with the other freeholder and had resistance hence the bodge job?

Lastly, do the deeds definitely give split responsibility for the roof? Is the loft area part of the flat you are buying or has the vendor been just using it (and abusing it causing subsequent damage?) If the latter the other freeholder may be less than impressed?

eddddy

LondonBookLover said:

Would this make you run for the hills? We were intending to go back tomorrow and ask for a reduction of half the costs quoted and also ask for a retention against the sale of the other half the costs in case the other freeholder doesn’t have the money to pay for the roof now. 

Was the retention idea proposed by your solicitor?  It doesn't sound very workable.

How does anyone determine whether the other freeholder has the money?  If they say they haven't, how will anyone know? (And if the other freeholder knows about the retention arrangement, I guess they'll just say "I don't have the money", so they don't have to pay yet.)

And how and when will the other freeholder be "forced" to pay the money? Are you expecting the other freeholder to sign an agreement to pay? What if they sign an agreement but still don't pay? What if they won't sign an agreement in the first place?

LondonBookLover

The retention idea was from another solicitor friend, we’d never heard of it before, but our solicitor was fine with the idea when we ran it past them. I just wasn’t sure what the other option would be - if the other freeholder is liable for half the shared costs for the roof, I am presuming we couldn’t ask the vendor to take the full price off as costs like this would normally be shared. So we were trying to think of an option that might be able to protect us if the other freeholder can’t pay up. And I am presuming it would be a negotiation in the same way of any another work that needs doing to the house, which would be covered by the freehold, and no different to if in a year or so we discovered something else that affected the overall building and we’d both negotiate over that, with a range of quotes, etc? But I am happy to accept it might be a terrible idea! 

AnotherJoe

LondonBookLover said:

Would this make you run for the hills? We were intending to go back tomorrow and ask for a reduction of half the costs quoted and also ask for a retention against the sale of the other half the costs in case the other freeholder doesn’t have the money to pay for the roof now. The roofer has said it doesn’t have to be done urgently, so I guess that might mean we can hang on till summer once the baby is here but is this just lunacy to proceed? How awful is having a new roof done when you live somewhere? If we don’t proceed, we’d be looking at proceeding with the sale of my one bed flat anyway as we don’t want to lose our buyer, and move into rented accommodation so we have room for the baby and working at home, which is obviously also more costs. But not as much as a new roof... 

Forget running, I'd drive away like Lewis Hamilton off a pitstop.

Why move into a place with that drama and cost ? And its not as if its under your control, because of the other freeholder.

Be thankful you found out in time, and the benefit of finding out in time is, you dont need to go through with it. So dont.

NameUnavailable

You could try speaking to the neighbour, explain the issue and ask if they are in a position to contribute to the works if they are done this year? Their reaction will tell you a lot.

hello007007

Run, hun!

Who knows what else she is hiding? Gosh, she would have had you buying the flat, most likely knowing it needed 1000s on a roof - while you were pregnant. Is she for real!

What a horrible person.

The stress of the works and conditions are not worth it in this case. I also feel the risk of other repairs being discovered once you move in is high. The horrible lady wasn't honest to you about the roof so how do you know the boiler, heating, pipes are all OK?

I'm so glad you found out about the roof. Well done.

HampshireH

LondonBookLover said:

The retention idea was from another solicitor friend, we’d never heard of it before, but our solicitor was fine with the idea when we ran it past them. I just wasn’t sure what the other option would be - if the other freeholder is liable for half the shared costs for the roof, I am presuming we couldn’t ask the vendor to take the full price off as costs like this would normally be shared. So we were trying to think of an option that might be able to protect us if the other freeholder can’t pay up. And I am presuming it would be a negotiation in the same way of any another work that needs doing to the house, which would be covered by the freehold, and no different to if in a year or so we discovered something else that affected the overall building and we’d both negotiate over that, with a range of quotes, etc? But I am happy to accept it might be a terrible idea! 

This is the case but it doesn't mean they will agree to pay whether they should or not 

eddddy

LondonBookLover said:

The retention idea was from another solicitor friend, we’d never heard of it before, but our solicitor was fine with the idea when we ran it past them. I just wasn’t sure what the other option would be - if the other freeholder is liable for half the shared costs for the roof, I am presuming we couldn’t ask the vendor to take the full price off as costs like this would normally be shared. So we were trying to think of an option that might be able to protect us if the other freeholder can’t pay up. And I am presuming it would be a negotiation in the same way of any another work that needs doing to the house, which would be covered by the freehold, and no different to if in a year or so we discovered something else that affected the overall building and we’d both negotiate over that, with a range of quotes, etc? But I am happy to accept it might be a terrible idea! 

A retention is fine for some situations - but it doesn't look like it's suitable for the purpose you describe.

There are quite a few considerations to work through...

• What if the other freeholder doesn't agree a new roof is required?
• What if the other freeholder thinks some much cheaper repairs would be sufficient?
• What if the other freeholder is totally disinterested and refuses to discuss the roof?

The best thing is to begin by talking to the other freeholder, and see how cooperative and reasonable they're likely to be. TBH, if they're not cooperative and reasonable - maybe you don't want to jointly own a building with them.

Ideally, both freeholders would have signed a Declaration of Trust which might say things like...

• If both freeholders can't agree what work is required, a RICS surveyor must be jointly appointed, and their decision will be binding

Without something like that in place, this kind of stuff can get very messy. (Maybe ask the other freeholder if they'd be prepared to sign one.)

cymruchris

You'll obviously have to share your findings with the seller - and the chances are the same findings would be found by any potential future buyer. I'd probably get a quote for a new roof and then get that taken off the asking price As much as it's a shared thing - if she's done all the bodging and slap dash repairs - it should be on her to shoulder the responsibility - but that might just be wishful thinking. She can only say no?

goldfinches

I'll just throw into the mix the fact that your lives are about to change profoundly and that you will find that your priorities shift in entirely unpredictable ways during the first few months of your baby's life so the place you thought you wanted may be no longer desirable anyway.
There are also all the knock-on effects on your jobs, I remember noticing that new fathers often found that their job wasn't as secure as they had previously thought when my peer group was having their first children and mothers often have difficulties when returning after maternity leave. The finances you know are therefore an advantage.
It might be worthwhile to decide that from now on there will be no other big changes for your family and that you'll think again when your son or daughter starts to walk which will probably be around a year or so from now.
You'll be taking a lot of pressure off both of you and as a bonus you'll be able to lay the blame squarely on your seller and most, if not all, people will understand and sympathise with your decision.
Whatever you decide to do will all work out in the end; its just, will you be looking back from shattered or completely knackered this time next year, that you are choosing!
Best of luck, goldfinches.