Obsolete oven warranty replacement

visidigi

RS2OOO said:

IvanOpinion said:

RS2OOO said:

IvanOpinion said:

There have been a couple of similar posts to this recently on this board (although I think they related to matching fridge freezers).  I believe it took a bit of perseverance but eventually they got both replaced.

microwave setting sets fire to things in under a minute and always at the exact same position)

Wow, not good.  Could you become an evil mastermind and repurpose your oven as a death ray and try taking over the world?

Hope you get it sorted, but try pushing as hard as possible on the grounds it was a matching set both with the retailer (and possibly the manufacturer) to see if you can get any sort of additional goodwill gesture.

I've not actually had any contact with the retailer over this. I registered warranty on manufacturers website on delivery and all dealings so far have been with a manufacturer appointed repairer (who have been excellent throughout having now visited 4 times and been on time every time). It is their senior engineer who actually believes this is a design fault).

Which may have something to do with the 'new' oven already being obsolete.
You're not entitled to replace both but you can ask. If they say no you have no rights.

unholyangel

If it's under warranty then it will depend on the terms of the warranty. 

However, if you went to the retailer under your consumer rights and have the right to reject some of the goods, you'd have the right to reject all of the goods. Any replacement would also need to be "like for like" (aka identical).

If it's more than 6 months from delivery then the retailer may ask you to prove your claim, which is normally done via independent report. 

RS2OOO

Thanks Visidigi and unholyangel.
Will start by asking what the possibilities are when repairer visits tomorrow (with sole purpose of writing off the oven), and of required will then speak to retailer in view of potential for an independent report.

Almost certainly the oven is obsolete due to this problem. There are only a handful of online reviews for this oven, most actually positive, but some have mentioned problems with the microwave function although a portion of those reviews seem to have been removed.

Sandtree

IvanOpinion said:

There have been a couple of similar posts to this recently on this board (although I think they related to matching fridge freezers).  I believe it took a bit of perseverance but eventually they got both replaced.

I had the issue with a matching fridge and freezer where the freezer broke down twice and on the second time was deemed beyond economical repair and I pushed that I had the right to reject both items because they were a single contract of sale.

The differential on this case however is that that mine had been replaced once before and therefore I had a statutory right to reject the items. By the sounds of it this is the first breakdown the OP has had and therefore the retailer has the right to choose between repair, replace or refund.

The OP appears to be dealing with the manufacturer given the terms warranty being used but the statutory rights are with the retailer not the manufacturer... terms of warranty can be whatever they like as they go on top of your statutory rights. The OP should be speaking to the company they bought the ovens from and discussing options with them.

Jenni_D

Sandtree said:

IvanOpinion said:

There have been a couple of similar posts to this recently on this board (although I think they related to matching fridge freezers).  I believe it took a bit of perseverance but eventually they got both replaced.

The differential on this case however is that that mine had been replaced once before and therefore I had a statutory right to reject the items. By the sounds of it this is the first breakdown the OP has had and therefore the retailer has the right to choose between repair, replace or refund.

The OP appears to be dealing with the manufacturer given the terms warranty being used but the statutory rights are with the retailer not the manufacturer... terms of warranty can be whatever they like as they go on top of your statutory rights. The OP should be speaking to the company they bought the ovens from and discussing options with them.

The OP mentions 4 engineer visits?

But yes, everything so far has been with the manufacturer according to the OP - I'm not sure if the vendor is even aware of the issues as yet.

Sandtree

Jenni_D said:

The OP mentions 4 engineer visits?

But yes, everything so far has been with the manufacturer according to the OP - I'm not sure if the vendor is even aware of the issues as yet.

My bad, scan reading didnt spot that later added detail.

In my case the engineers were always arranged by the manufacturer (Samsung) but I ensured I spoke to the retailer (john lewis) first in each case and that they gave me a reference for the issue as they always palmed me off to the manufacturer but as rights are with the retailer wanted a record that I was following their directions.

I got a good result but it did take a small claim being lodged but got back more than the original purchase price and court costs (though we lost circa 2.2 freezer loads of food in the process)

RS2OOO

Thanks to those who've contributed further information.
It is correct that I've only dealt with the manufacture appointed warranty company to date and haven't informed the retailer (A.O).
All 4 engineers visits have been for the same ongoing issue, changing different parts on each visit until now when all possibilities have been exhausted.

Monday's engineer visit to formally write off the oven didn't happen since they sent an engineer who wasn't microwave trained! Another appointment made for Friday.

A further point I should now make is that the date of delivery was 31st Jan 2020, and despite the ovens not actually getting installed till March 2020 the 12 month warranty will now have expired. This hasn't affected the warranty claim because that has been ongoing since October, but will it be too late to start discussing this with the retailer now?

Jenni_D

When it comes to dealing with the retailer then the important time frames are 6 months (burden of proof) and 6 years (limitations act period) ... 12 months has no legal status in terms of consumer rights.

If you approach AO now then as far as they will be concerned then this will be the first failure report. They may require you to prove that the fault wasn't caused by you, but the previous warranty visits should cover that. As it's their first failure report then they have the right to try and effect a repair, but whether they will is debatable. Beyond this they may offer a replacement or a refund - any refund can be reduced for your time of ownership beyond 6 months ... at only 13 months since delivery then I'd expect any reduction to be fairly small.

HTH

Sandtree

RS2OOO said:

 but will it be too late to start discussing this with the retailer now?

Consumer legislation talks of reasonable durability and its intended that this considers what the items is... clearly an oven should last longer than some sellotape. The upper cap is therefore the law of limitations which in England & Wales is 6 years though some items will have exceeded their expected lifespan before this.

Just one point of note however is that the CRA does allow a retailer to consider the use already received from an item if they decide to refund the purchase and so with over a years usage you may not get back 100% of the original purchase price. 

From what I understand AO is unusual in that it actually holds stock of some items that most retailers dont (I know they hold Miele items whereas order from John Lewis, Harrods or anyone else and it gets sent direct from Miele) and so there is a chance they do hold a replacement even if the manufacturer says its discontinued.

RS2OOO

Learned a few things from these replies so thanks again. Reminds me of another kitchen item I recently had to do a warranty claim on and after submitting online warranty claim the manufacturer sent me back to the retailer which I thought was just  bad service (watch it was based on their tone) but now I can see the logic.

As for the oven, they visited today and wrote it off and said next step will be someone contacting me to arrange replacement. No guarantee that the replacement will be the same design, or even the same brand, but thats something to discuss when the time comes.
I asked the engineer if he'd worked on my specific model before in view of the suspiciously short production run and he said yes, only 1 other which he's dealing with right now with the same fault and that will also end up being written off as no parts replaced so far have fixed it.