Questions about Schedule 4 of POFA

ihatetrump

OK here is the text of my E-mail to the Court sent yesterday:

Good morning,

 I write further to your response below [this relates to their email back to me on April 30] as I believe that there has been a missed step in the process, either that, or I have missed a letter or communication from the Court.

 Am I correct in assuming that the hearing on July 13th is a Directions Hearing as it is only 30 minutes?

 I have received no instructions whatsoever about filing a witness statement or evidence and as such the hearing will be wasted if the Judge has nothing to look at from either party.  

And the response I have received today:

Good Morning,

 All issues re filing and serving documents with the Court and on parties and any other issues that need to be clarified/addressed will be considered at the hearing on 13th July 2021 as stated in paragraph 5 of the order as follows:

 5. At the hearing the Court will

a. ensure that issues are clarified and that all necessary evidence has been filed;

b. use the hearing as a final hearing if appropriate;

c. alternatively (and if appropriate) give a neutral evaluation of the case to encourage the parties to reach an

agreement. If no agreement can be reached, the Judge who deals with the hearing will have no further involvement

in the case, except to make a consent order or give further directions order;

d. (if no agreement can be reached) establish what type of further hearing may be needed (ie a remote hearing

or a face to face hearing at the Court Building).

Seems like a total waste of time to me. At the same time BWL have called again (against my instructions) and left a message asking me to call - which I have not done as yet - presumably also a waste of time.

Le_Kirk

Their comment and their paragraph #5a makes no sense, they are counterintuitive!  How can the judge ensure that all  issues are clarified and that all necessary evidence has been filed if they don't let you file evidence?  I would go back and point that out to them.

ihatetrump

Thanks - I've gone back to them and will advise further.
Any thoughts on responding to BWL's call today?

KeithP

ihatetrump said:

Any thoughts on responding to BWL's call today?

Yes. Ignore it.

Le_Kirk

Trobihatetrump said:

Thanks - I've gone back to them and will advise further.
Any thoughts on responding to BWL's call today?

The trouble is a phone call is worth the paper it is written on!  If you have had e-mail dealings with them, maybe drop an e-mail and explain you unfortunately missed their call due to being busy but if they could let you know by e-mail what is about you will consider it when you finish work.  They might be trying to contact you to organise an evidence bundle! 

ihatetrump

Very quick questions on landowner authority.

In my defence statement I used the template and left item 16 with no alterations. To date, I haven't pursued Landowner authority, mainly because initially I thought the PPC was the landowner and now I believe they are not and it is in fact Milton Keynes Council. 

What steps should I be taking to get a copy (hopefully unredacted) of the contract and then establish of they (the PPC) had authority?

Still awaiting a response from the Court on lack of directions to date and filing of witness statement (Hearing is set for July 13).

Umkomaas

The claimant should include it as evidence with their WS, but only likely to do so if you have raised it in your Defence, or, if not, hopefully slipped it in somewhere in your own WS. Likely it will be heavily redacted, if you get it at all. 

If the landowner is a Local Authority, they will come within the scope of the Freedom of Information Act (2000) and therefore open to a FOI request for disclosure. Go for that if you wish, but they do have 21 days in which to respond. Don't expect them to roll over nicely, you might have to persevere via escalation. 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/

ihatetrump

Finally a response back from the Court concerning a lack of direction and instructions concerning filing of a WS:

Your previous letter was referred to the judges on 8th June 2021 as an urgent matter.  As stated in the order dated 18 March 2021 any outstanding issues will be addressed at the hearing on 13 July 2021, this hearing has been listed for directions.

 The Court service is experiencing a Judicial shortage at present.

 You will have direction in due course, the Judges are dealing with urgent business as well as their hearings before any other business. if the matter is not deemed urgent by the Court, it could be several weeks before you receive any correspondence.  Please can I thank you for your patience and please leave at least a further 2 weeks before contacting the court again on this matter.

Seems like the 13th July will be a total waste of time

So my questions now are:

1. What to expect at the Directions hearing?
2. Anything I should be doing in the meantime, other than preparing my WS? - although is it wise to publish on the Forum before knowing the contents of the claimants' WS.

Fruitcake

Go back to the guide to court to see if there is anything else you should be doing. Have a tick list and mark dates on your calendar, with warnings before any due dates.

Yes, make a start on your WS on the assumption that you won't get to see the claimant's WS in time. If it does arrive before you need to send yours, that will be a bonus.

Yes, show us your WS with personal data redacted. The claimant will get to see it soon enough.

When you get the claimant's WS, show it to us asap, even if it is after you haver to submit yours. Only redact YOUR personal data. I cannot emphasise how important it is to pay particular attention to the words I have highlighted.

As far as the land being council owned, the PoFA states that it is not relevant land because it is owned by a Traffic Management Authority. Irrespective of whether the driver's identity has been divulged, the PPC is not permitted to obtain registered keeper details from the DVLA on non-relevant land.

Complaints should be made to the council, your MP, the PPC, their ATA, the DVLA, and the DVLA KADOE team as a result.

ihatetrump

@Fruitcake - Thank you so much for the penultimate paragraph of your post - this is very useful and although I had read Section 4, the definitions of relevant land had escaped me - and their relevance!

I have submitted a Freedom of Information request to the the Council for a copy of the contract, but on the basis that the car park is Council owned (which will be proven when I receive a response), what you're saying is the PPC has obtained registered keeper details 'illegally'?

In terms of a complaint to my MP - even though she does not represent the area where the car park is located?

Your comments may explain why to date I have not been able to find any evidence of other PCN's issued in the same car park and being contested.

Once again, thank you for your tireless and brilliant work.