PayPal claim denied.. scammed

mattyprice4004

If PayPal won't help you, your only option is to take the seller to court really.

EnzoAk

mattyprice4004 said:

If PayPal won't help you, your only option is to take the seller to court really.

Unfortunately all I have on the seller is a name through PayPal, no address or anything else, they were a private seller.

EnzoAk

George_Michael said:

theonlywayisup said:

George_Michael said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

If a scammer wanted to, getting such a tracking number would be extremely easy to do.
Say for example, I sold something to you and then decided to RIP you off.
I have your address so all I need to do is to find another address in the same location and post an empty envelope to that address using RM signed for (£2.06 for second class) or a couple of £s more for an empty parcel.
Depending on what was "sold", this outlay might be a fraction of the money scammed.
Once delivered  I have proof of delivery to a location close to you (I might even have picked a neighbour so it's the same postcode) and the recipient of the empty envelope or box wouldn't have a clue what was going on and would probably just chuck it away.

Why go to the bother.  Posting an empty envelope to another address is no different than sending it to the buyer.  An empty envelope is subject to a SNAD.  The fact the buyer hasn't received it could be moot as Paypal believe he/she has.  

The difficulty will be in showing a return to the seller as if they are able they could refuse the parcel. 

Posting to the buyer rather than to a different address could well cause problems for the scammer.
If I had paid for something and an empty envelope turned up, the scammer would have proof of delivery but I would have an envelope with the correct tracking number but which might not have been able to contain the item concerned.
A parcel might be the same if the weights don't match.
If it was delivered to an alternate address and the recipient disposed of it, the proof has gone.
I know this probably wouldn't help too much with PayPal but it could well do it the loss made legal action against the scammer worthwhile.

The thing is after I paid I’m not too sure what happened after that point. Did I pay the scammer or a genuine seller who posted the item elsewhere? I’ve been researching for 2 weeks now and I think it is a little more complex than we think, are the seller and the scammer working together? The seller could have been tricked into sending the item elsewhere but a genuine seller wouldn’t post to an address that’s not on PayPal so I’m not sure. I clearly added a detailed description of the goods in the description box including size, colour etc. I can still see this person under different aliases with the same item and similar items listed trying to lure more people in. It’s obviously working and they know how PayPal are investigating these, which isn’t properly, so right they’re unstoppable and will carry on to scam whoever they possibly can. PayPal is letting them get away with it so they're abusing it.

EnzoAk

My bank have just asked for correspondence from the seller who blocked me over 2 weeks ago, see the questions asked below, I have X’d out the sellers name -

’Please provide the correspondence of the merchant XXXXXXXXX showing that you are entitled for a refund.

Please note that we cannot investigate further without the requested evidence.’

First they were requesting evidence from PayPal, now they have specifically listed the other sellers name as it appears on the card statement. They know that this person in unresponsive and has not replied to any email or message since over 2 weeks ago so I do not understand why they’re asking for this? 

born_again

EnzoAk said:

My bank have just asked for correspondence from the seller who blocked me over 2 weeks ago, see the questions asked below, I have X’d out the sellers name -

’Please provide the correspondence of the merchant XXXXXXXXX showing that you are entitled for a refund.

Please note that we cannot investigate further without the requested evidence.’

First they were requesting evidence from PayPal, now they have specifically listed the other sellers name as it appears on the card statement. They know that this person in unresponsive and has not replied to any email or message since over 2 weeks ago so I do not understand why they’re asking for this? 

You do not need proof that "You are entitled to a refund" For a Non Receipt chargeback.

Perhaps you would be best speaking to the banks dispute team on the phone. It is a very simple chargeback that can be done over the phone with no paperwork. You just need to have it to hand in case the retailer contests the chargeback.

EnzoAk

born_again said:

EnzoAk said:

My bank have just asked for correspondence from the seller who blocked me over 2 weeks ago, see the questions asked below, I have X’d out the sellers name -

’Please provide the correspondence of the merchant XXXXXXXXX showing that you are entitled for a refund.

Please note that we cannot investigate further without the requested evidence.’

First they were requesting evidence from PayPal, now they have specifically listed the other sellers name as it appears on the card statement. They know that this person in unresponsive and has not replied to any email or message since over 2 weeks ago so I do not understand why they’re asking for this? 

You do not need proof that "You are entitled to a refund" For a Non Receipt chargeback.

Perhaps you would be best speaking to the banks dispute team on the phone. It is a very simple chargeback that can be done over the phone with no paperwork. You just need to have it to hand in case the retailer contests the chargeback.

This is exactly what I thought. This is TSB by the way and the only way to contact their debit dispute team is by email at the moment so it’s very frustrating. I have been emailing this same ‘customer service consultant’ at TSB back and forth, we have exchanged over 20 emails and the questions that are being asked are repetitive and pointless. Their process is to fill out a online form and then the ‘consultant’ emails you asking for more evidence. From the first reply I knew it was shambles because he wrote ‘due to you using PayPal friends and family we are unable help’, I clearly listed on the form that I paid with PayPal goods and services. Some of my family members have made chargeback claims with a simple phone call to their banks but TSB are making it extremely difficult, if their chargeback scheme is in place I wonder what you need to claim on it because I highly doubt someone will have correspondence from a seller stating ‘you are entitled to a refund’, if that was the case then the person would not be making a chargeback claim, so I’m confused as to what TSB want.

born_again

If TSB are behaving in such a way, then raise a complaint.

custardy

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

You won't get anywhere with a chargeback so your only hope is PayPal, but realistically I don't think you're going to get any further with them.

Common scam. often using large organisations who will sign for items more readily

custardy

EnzoAk said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

You won't get anywhere with a chargeback so your only hope is PayPal, but realistically I don't think you're going to get any further with them.

Yes I also find it very strange. That delivery depo is roughly 6 miles away from me, my local depo is 0.9 miles away and that’s where all my mail comes from. The item was posted roughly 20 mins after I made the purchase which is where alarm bells started ringing, then funnily enough when I was speaking to this scammer they said it was a tracking for a different item and told me they would send my item the following day. Hours later I noticed none of my messages going through to them. Obviously nothing ever arrived. I’ve literally been researching for 2 weeks now but I still cannot get my head round how they did this.

You need to speak to a human at Paypal.
Given the way RMs systems work the wrong depot is an obvious red flag it wasnt addressed to you.

EnzoAk

born_again said:

If TSB are behaving in such a way, then raise a complaint.

Complained a little while ago. I think for the complaint procedure they have 8 weeks to respond so not expecting a reply any time soon.

I actually managed to get through to a different PayPal manager today and they said they would reopen the appeal and phone Royal Mail themselves, they’ve promised so much over the last 2 weeks so I’m not keeping my hopes up but I really hope they do phone Royal Mail and then they can confirm that the parcel wasn’t delivered to me.