PayPal claim denied.. scammed

EnzoAk

First time posting, never been in this situation before. Basically I was scammed via PayPal goods and services, guy uploaded a tracking number with Royal Mail which shows a parcel delivered, when confirmed with Royal Mail it wasn’t to my confirmed address on PayPal, it was a random address couple miles away, the seller obviously blocked me afterwards on all platforms.

This is where it gets interesting, I complain to PayPal and my claim is denied because the tracking shows delivered. I provide all the evidence, tracking doesn’t show my local delivery office, when I called Royal Mail they confirmed it wasn’t addressed to me or under my name and couldn’t give me any other information due to data protection.  I ended getting an email confirmation from their customer service team to validate all this. I provided all this in my appeal and PayPal rejected it again half an hour later. I called and emailed dozens of times but they said ‘because it was delivered within a 10 mile radius, we can’t do anything’, I was like what!! That is completely absurd, like this anyone can get scammed at any time, It’s so easy, scammers also know this so they will carry on doing this. My claim was denied a further 3 times.

I then went to my bank who were even more unhelpful, I explained to them I was scammed. They wanted evidence from PayPal that I am entitled to a refund to initiate a chargeback claim, I tried explaining over and over but it looked like the agent was just copying and pasting and not listening to a word I was saying. He kept saying the goods are delivered and we need email correspondence from PayPal confirming that I am entitled to a refund. Tried explaining that the goods were delivered to a completely different address and I sent all evidence but he kept copying and pasting the same question on the responses. First they asked for evidence to show they were delivered to a different address then they started saying they were delivered to you because PayPal wrote that on the claim resolution, but the evidence from Royal Mail clearly showed they weren’t delivered to me. PayPal even advised me to do a chargeback with my bank but the bank have been completely useless and reading questions of a script.

Now I am completely baffled as to how I can get an actual person to read through the evidence and actually look at everything. It seems everything is computerised and none of the evidence has been looked into. This is £500 at stake and I feel like telling the truth has got me no where so far. The scammer won on everything so far and is long gone whilst I’m still here trying to recover my loss.

Any help would be appreciated because I am completely lost that a scam so simple works this way. Thanks

Yahoo_Mail

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

You won't get anywhere with a chargeback so your only hope is PayPal, but realistically I don't think you're going to get any further with them.

born_again

Well if the goods are showing as delivered & you do a non receipt chargeback there is a strong possibility that it gets rejected. As card regulations do not state that it has to be delivered to your address, just that to contest they have to prove delivery. There is a good chance that paypal will not contest & then chase the seller.
But you need to stop telling the bank you were scammed. You simply need to tell them that the goods have not been delivered to you - Nothing else, other than what the goods are & what you have done to resolve.

I take it that you funded the paypal payment via a card payment & not a Direct Debit, as Direct Debits do not have any cover for non receipt etc.

I'm am surprised that PayPal rejected the claim, as usually retailers take the address from your account and will not send anywhere else.

EnzoAk

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

You won't get anywhere with a chargeback so your only hope is PayPal, but realistically I don't think you're going to get any further with them.

Yes I also find it very strange. That delivery depo is roughly 6 miles away from me, my local depo is 0.9 miles away and that’s where all my mail comes from. The item was posted roughly 20 mins after I made the purchase which is where alarm bells started ringing, then funnily enough when I was speaking to this scammer they said it was a tracking for a different item and told me they would send my item the following day. Hours later I noticed none of my messages going through to them. Obviously nothing ever arrived. I’ve literally been researching for 2 weeks now but I still cannot get my head round how they did this.

EnzoAk

born_again said:

Well if the goods are showing as delivered & you do a non receipt chargeback there is a strong possibility that it gets rejected. As card regulations do not state that it has to be delivered to your address, just that to contest they have to prove delivery. There is a good chance that paypal will not contest & then chase the seller.
But you need to stop telling the bank you were scammed. You simply need to tell them that the goods have not been delivered to you - Nothing else, other than what the goods are & what you have done to resolve.

I take it that you funded the paypal payment via a card payment & not a Direct Debit, as Direct Debits do not have any cover for non receipt etc.

I'm am surprised that PayPal rejected the claim, as usually retailers take the address from your account and will not send anywhere else.

I’ve tried explaining on email numerous times now stating the fact that the goods have not been delivered to me but they keep sending the same generic reply -

‘Unfortunately, as the evidence you have provided clearly states that the goods were already delivered we cannot proceed further without the correspondence from the merchant showing you are entitled for a refund.’

The evidence is from PayPal when they denied my claim they stated ‘the goods have been delivered to you’. I’ve sent the bank the tracking uploaded onto PayPal (screenshots) and email correspondence from Royal Mail but the agent keeps copying and pasting the same email reply. I funded the payment via a debit card through PayPal.

George_Michael

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

If a scammer wanted to, getting such a tracking number would be extremely easy to do.
Say for example, I sold something to you and then decided to RIP you off.
I have your address so all I need to do is to find another address in the same location and post an empty envelope to that address using RM signed for (£2.06 for second class) or a couple of £s more for an empty parcel.
Depending on what was "sold", this outlay might be a fraction of the money scammed.
Once delivered  I have proof of delivery to a location close to you (I might even have picked a neighbour so it's the same postcode) and the recipient of the empty envelope or box wouldn't have a clue what was going on and would probably just chuck it away.

theonlywayisup

George_Michael said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

If a scammer wanted to, getting such a tracking number would be extremely easy to do.
Say for example, I sold something to you and then decided to RIP you off.
I have your address so all I need to do is to find another address in the same location and post an empty envelope to that address using RM signed for (£2.06 for second class) or a couple of £s more for an empty parcel.
Depending on what was "sold", this outlay might be a fraction of the money scammed.
Once delivered  I have proof of delivery to a location close to you (I might even have picked a neighbour so it's the same postcode) and the recipient of the empty envelope or box wouldn't have a clue what was going on and would probably just chuck it away.

Why go to the bother.  Posting an empty envelope to another address is no different than sending it to the buyer.  An empty envelope is subject to a SNAD.  The fact the buyer hasn't received it could be moot as Paypal believe he/she has.  

The difficulty will be in showing a return to the seller as if they are able they could refuse the parcel. 

bris

Paypal can be frustrating to deal with, they are always right in their eyes. They see this every day, from genuine claims to scammers claiming to have been scammed, so for them what are you?

Was it a private sale or a retailer? Likely hood of a retailer scamming you will be based on the relationship the retailer has with Paypal, are they likely scammers in Paypals eyes? New sellers would bring doubt well established sellers likely not. 

They will also have a defence from the seller, their defence may be more convincing than your claim in their eyes.

So the other problem you have is the Paypal account, is the value of the item worth more than your account as a successful bank chargeback will cost you your account along with anyone in your households. 

Yahoo_Mail

theonlywayisup said:

George_Michael said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

If a scammer wanted to, getting such a tracking number would be extremely easy to do.
Say for example, I sold something to you and then decided to RIP you off.
I have your address so all I need to do is to find another address in the same location and post an empty envelope to that address using RM signed for (£2.06 for second class) or a couple of £s more for an empty parcel.
Depending on what was "sold", this outlay might be a fraction of the money scammed.
Once delivered  I have proof of delivery to a location close to you (I might even have picked a neighbour so it's the same postcode) and the recipient of the empty envelope or box wouldn't have a clue what was going on and would probably just chuck it away.

Why go to the bother.  Posting an empty envelope to another address is no different than sending it to the buyer.  An empty envelope is subject to a SNAD.  The fact the buyer hasn't received it could be moot as Paypal believe he/she has.  

The difficulty will be in showing a return to the seller as if they are able they could refuse the parcel. 

It is my understanding that this loophole is now closed and if the tracking shows as the parcel being refused, you get refunded anyway.

theonlywayisup

Yahoo_Mail said:

theonlywayisup said:

George_Michael said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

If a scammer wanted to, getting such a tracking number would be extremely easy to do.
Say for example, I sold something to you and then decided to RIP you off.
I have your address so all I need to do is to find another address in the same location and post an empty envelope to that address using RM signed for (£2.06 for second class) or a couple of £s more for an empty parcel.
Depending on what was "sold", this outlay might be a fraction of the money scammed.
Once delivered  I have proof of delivery to a location close to you (I might even have picked a neighbour so it's the same postcode) and the recipient of the empty envelope or box wouldn't have a clue what was going on and would probably just chuck it away.

Why go to the bother.  Posting an empty envelope to another address is no different than sending it to the buyer.  An empty envelope is subject to a SNAD.  The fact the buyer hasn't received it could be moot as Paypal believe he/she has.  

The difficulty will be in showing a return to the seller as if they are able they could refuse the parcel. 

It is my understanding that this loophole is now closed and if the tracking shows as the parcel being refused, you get refunded anyway.

It isn't a loophole.  It is part of the protection policy.

The buyer has to show proof of delivery.  If that did not exist we wouldn't have the plethora of posts where buyers can't return items to Far East sellers as they never track or refuse delivery.  Also the system would not be fair to the seller.

The section for returns for buyer protection

1. the buyer to post back to the payment recipient, to PayPal or to a third party (as PayPal may direct) an item that the buyer claims is SNAD and to provide Proof of Delivery. Please take reasonable precautions in re-packing the item to reduce the risk of damage to the item during transit.

Proof of Delivery for tangible items means online documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:

1. A status of “delivered” (or equivalent) and the date of delivery.
2. The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).

Sadly, there is no 'refusal' term.  

George_Michael

theonlywayisup said:

George_Michael said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

 I find it surprising that a scammer would conveniently have a tracking number for a successfully delivered parcel within such a relatively small distance of your address but not local enough to be from your DO.

If a scammer wanted to, getting such a tracking number would be extremely easy to do.
Say for example, I sold something to you and then decided to RIP you off.
I have your address so all I need to do is to find another address in the same location and post an empty envelope to that address using RM signed for (£2.06 for second class) or a couple of £s more for an empty parcel.
Depending on what was "sold", this outlay might be a fraction of the money scammed.
Once delivered  I have proof of delivery to a location close to you (I might even have picked a neighbour so it's the same postcode) and the recipient of the empty envelope or box wouldn't have a clue what was going on and would probably just chuck it away.

Why go to the bother.  Posting an empty envelope to another address is no different than sending it to the buyer.  An empty envelope is subject to a SNAD.  The fact the buyer hasn't received it could be moot as Paypal believe he/she has.  

The difficulty will be in showing a return to the seller as if they are able they could refuse the parcel. 

Posting to the buyer rather than to a different address could well cause problems for the scammer.
If I had paid for something and an empty envelope turned up, the scammer would have proof of delivery but I would have an envelope with the correct tracking number but which might not have been able to contain the item concerned.
A parcel might be the same if the weights don't match.
If it was delivered to an alternate address and the recipient disposed of it, the proof has gone.
I know this probably wouldn't help too much with PayPal but it could well do it the loss made legal action against the scammer worthwhile.